the God term
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11-05-2013, 11:35 AM
RE: the God term


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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11-05-2013, 11:43 AM
RE: the God term
   


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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11-05-2013, 12:23 PM (This post was last modified: 11-05-2013 12:29 PM by childeye.)
RE: the God term
(11-05-2013 12:30 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  
Quote:It doesn't do any good to be guessing at whether God is good or not. I'm saying He is Love. Love is good. Love gives us the ability to judge what is good.

[quote]You are semantically defining terms. This is not good argument.
I submit it is not argument to discuss the semantics inherent in linguistics and the different connotations created by them. It is necessary to create clarity in communicating and seeing the underlying motives behind the words in a moral context.

Quote: Remember that the fact that time itself is part of the creation indicates alternate dimensions.

Quote:You are now making scientific assertions that at this point in time are mere speculations.
I also have formed the plausible. That God being outside of time would be able to foretell the future before it happened because time itself is a part of the creation.

Quote:Look God as Love lives in each and everyone of us. I think aliens do this also, just in a different way. Aliens jump out of an egg and wrap their tails around your throat while they cover your face and impregnate you, so they can later bust out of your chest.

Quote:I'm not even going to address this, you clearly have been hanging out here too much.
As you wish, but you are glossing over my point that God as Love exists, and motivates moral reasoning inside of mankind. Just admit that and let's move on.

Quote:Personally I believe Love is the foundation for all spirits. Of course Love exists for the sake of goodness. This does not mean that Love is not the God of the bible.

Quote:You are now qualifying your assertions. What happened to the absolute truth of love?
I have always asserted that love is an absolute Truth in moral reasoning just like the bible does. You all have asked for me to qualify it and I am simply reciprocating as per your request.

Quote:No, not exactly. I only used introspection to make the case that there is a moral Truth based on empathy which we all can imagine.

Quote:Bold type speaks for itself.
That was my intent. Whether you agree or disagree cannot be ascertained by your statement.

Quote: Love is good is the only Moral Truth that can live and be recogmized in all men. You can say you see no veracity in that?

Quote:Love is good. Morality has consistently been demonstrated to be subjective depending on social conditions. You are the only one not seeing this. Well, you and William Layne Craig.
So here is your answer, you agree that we all do imagine as we feel empathy. However I have already established that that morality can be viewed subjectively as well as objectively. Read this productive discourse from a prior post.

Childeye said: Your perspective of the Truth and mine are unique and differing subjective views. The Truth itself is not subjective. Whether I change your mind or not is irrelative. I believe or at least hope everyone will come to know the Truth eventually.

Evenheathen said: I misspoke, you are technically correct. There are facts out there that, by definition, are the truth, and they are not subjective.
Quote: I see, I manipulated myself to believe that Love is good. No I just stated a fact.

Quote:I see no problem with this statement. It's all of the other semantic bullshit you hang on the word love I find issues with.
I didn't invent semantics, they simply occur.

Quote: Specifically god.
Yes I know you hate the term, but you don't hate Love. But clearly this is because you don't like people politicizing Love for personal gain and promoting superstition so as to rule by fear all in the Name of God. But it is hypocritical to blame God just because while seeking power, men have slandered His Image. Without submitting to the Truth, in hypocrisy we become the very people we hate.
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11-05-2013, 01:00 PM (This post was last modified: 11-05-2013 02:02 PM by childeye.)
RE: the God term
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11-05-2013, 01:11 PM
RE: the God term
Quote: I also have formed the plausible. That God being outside of time would be able to foretell the future before it happened because time itself is a part of the creation.

Possible, not plausible.

Quote: have always asserted that love is an absolute Truth in moral reasoning just like the bible does. You all have asked for me to qualify it and I am simply reciprocating as per your request.

You qualified it as a belief, not a fact.

Quote: Whether you agree or disagree cannot be ascertained by your statement.

I agree it is your imagination.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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11-05-2013, 01:36 PM (This post was last modified: 11-05-2013 01:56 PM by childeye.)
RE: the God term
(11-05-2013 01:11 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
Quote: I also have formed the plausible. That God being outside of time would be able to foretell the future before it happened because time itself is a part of the creation.

Possible, not plausible.

[quote] have always asserted that love is an absolute Truth in moral reasoning just like the bible does. You all have asked for me to qualify it and I am simply reciprocating as per your request.

Quote:You qualified it as a belief, not a fact.
From the very first page of this this thread: I consider the term God as a moral absolute. For example it would be synonymous to a moral Truth founded on the spiritual existence of Love or empathy.
Quote: Whether you agree or disagree cannot be ascertained by your statement.

Quote:I agree it is your imagination.
From The very first page of this thread: My reasons for not believing in religion are because I view religion as mankinds varying images of god but not necessarily thee God. But as a moral absolute, I therefore must believe everyone has some image of god.

That means you too imagine god when you imagine there is no god. Consequently, you and I are no different in that respect than from any one else. We all create an image of god. So let us avoid the hypocrisy here. Let's be honest.
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11-05-2013, 01:55 PM
RE: the God term
(11-05-2013 01:00 PM)childeye Wrote:  ]
You all already agreed with me a long time ago. Love is Good and we should regard Love as such, and follow it. The term God is currently just a debate over interpretation of scripture.

No, I think you're being disingenuous here. You've twisted words before and this is simply more twisting on your part.

Love is fine, it's an acquired emotion and there's nothing wrong with it. It's not always good -- you can love the wrong person. The feelings are nice -- no one is arguing that those feelings aren't nice.

god hasn't a thing to do with love. God hasn't any thing to do with the morals a society adopts -- what is completely amoral to once group, is perfectly fine to others. Like girls getting married as young as 9. We think it's wrong, they argue it's not.

Or female circumcision -- yes that bugs me to no end and i believe it should be stopped -- but thats based on MY world view. However, in some societies it's still performed. And our country, during the 1950s doctors actually did it, for women who seemed 'hysterical' or preoccupied with sex and to treat depression.

Morality is completely subjective and so is truth. There isn't any absolutes; it comes down to what you believe. If you believe it's ok to have 4 wives and you can afford it...that's your truth and it's absolute.

I or anyone else doesn't have to accept your truth. Just because many people agree its fine to have as many wives and children as you can care for -- doesn't make it right for EVERYONE ELSE.

Is any of this making any sense to you?


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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11-05-2013, 01:55 PM
RE: the God term
(11-05-2013 01:36 PM)childeye Wrote:  That means you too imagine god when you imagine there is no god. Consequently, you and I are no different in that respect than from any one else. We all create an image of god. So let us avoid the hypocrisy here.

So what?
I imagine there's no Chevy 57 orbiting Saturn, but I create an image of a Chevy 57 when I imagine no Chevy 57... Oh wait...

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11-05-2013, 01:57 PM
RE: the God term

Ohmigosh! Sphynx kitties!

childsbrain, go peddle your crap some place else. We have really important things to discuss now.

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11-05-2013, 02:41 PM (This post was last modified: 11-05-2013 03:02 PM by childeye.)
RE: the God term
(11-05-2013 01:55 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(11-05-2013 01:00 PM)childeye Wrote:  ]
You all already agreed with me a long time ago. Love is Good and we should regard Love as such, and follow it. The term God is currently just a debate over interpretation of scripture.

No, I think you're being disingenuous here. You've twisted words before and this is simply more twisting on your part.

Love is fine, it's an acquired emotion and there's nothing wrong with it. It's not always good -- you can love the wrong person. The feelings are nice -- no one is arguing that those feelings aren't nice.

god hasn't a thing to do with love. God hasn't any thing to do with the morals a society adopts -- what is completely amoral to once group, is perfectly fine to others. Like girls getting married as young as 9. We think it's wrong, they argue it's not.

Or female circumcision -- yes that bugs me to no end and i believe it should be stopped -- but thats based on MY world view. However, in some societies it's still performed. And our country, during the 1950s doctors actually did it, for women who seemed 'hysterical' or preoccupied with sex and to treat depression.

Morality is completely subjective and so is truth. There isn't any absolutes; it comes down to what you believe. If you believe it's ok to have 4 wives and you can afford it...that's your truth and it's absolute.

I or anyone else doesn't have to accept your truth. Just because many people agree its fine to have as many wives and children as you can care for -- doesn't make it right for EVERYONE ELSE.

Is any of this making any sense to you?
Sure, you make plenty of sense. I have no problem understanding your perspective. You may percieve that I am twisting words but you actually agree with what I have said.

Here's the problem as I have already said. What is immoral in one place is then moral in another is the very problem and the source of all moral conflict. Therefore I am not saying this doesn't happen or that this is not how it is. Moreover this is a blindness or manipulation of the mind since obviously neither terms moral or immoral ever hold true to their meaning. And that is because of varying versions of the absolute that would otherwise define the true and false directions they are meant to describe. To see things this way is in fact immoral of itself. It is idolatry since you might as well be saying there is no right and wrong. True Morality however is not defined by a single persons subjective view, but ultimately by those behaviors that best serve the community as a whole.

What is truly moral serves True Love. What is perverted is a perversion of that Love. How much you want to bet that female circumcision is a perverted form of love, created by a corrupt image of god?
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