the God term
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12-05-2013, 01:15 PM
RE: the God term
(11-05-2013 09:10 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(11-05-2013 08:35 PM)childeye Wrote:  I'm not talking about the term Love. Men didn't invent what the term is used to describe.

Like the god term?

Just a word given by men, who created something in their image to explain everything .

Got it...good.

Shop fly.
You have reframed the issue and created a straw man argument. I was talking about the term Love not the term God.
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12-05-2013, 01:19 PM
RE: the God term
(11-05-2013 10:19 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
Quote:Is there any thing more contradictory, than an intelligent and omnipotent workman, who only produces to destroy?
Baron d'Holbach

This one right here. This, I think, sums up the final argument in my mind towards god. There is nothing more contradictory. Take a look at the known history of man.

Destruction.

Man was busy killing and destroying before god showed up. Man was enabled, encouraged and blessed by god to kill and destroy while he was around. And for thousands of years after he left us to our own devices, we are busy killing and destroying.

We created the notion of god in order to justify the killer instinct in us. The thinking mind has brought us farther as a species than any could imagine, yet this thinking mind gives us the most inane reasoning that can be imagined to continue the savage brutality towards our fellow man. The notion of god makes this possible.

If there ever was a god, it gives no hint of compassion, empathy, or love for it's creation. If there ever was a god, man has evolved a sense of love far surpassing that of their creator, this it true.

I can imagine a great, loving god. I can in no way imagine that this world is in any way, shape or form an extension of any part of that god.
You are describing vanity, the usurping of that which is God for personal gain over others. Vanity is hypocritical.
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12-05-2013, 01:26 PM
RE: the God term
(12-05-2013 12:24 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Christ does nothing. He is not here, probably never was in the way you mean. Your posts where you claim to have explained yourself are nothing but repetition of the words Truth God and Love always capitalised as if that adds any extra meaning.

As I have noted before your personal theology is based on ignorance but as of now it seems that it is an enforced ignorance. You don't want to learn the truth because you already created one you like better than reality and for that I pity you. You rely on nothing but word games and fallacies and when confronted with them you either ignore the criticism or spout inanities in the form of a mantra "God is Love is Truth is God is Love is Truth is God..."

As to your God of love, if on the impossible chance he were to exist, he has a lot to answer for and I doubt he would be able to and not be worse than your Satan.

Wholeheartedly agree. The whole circular argument was succinctly stated too many times and each time it's refuted. But then Ce changes it..just a little and feigns ignorance, but repeats the same convoluted and specious mantra. And the whole thing begins anew. He's already said he won't agree to simply disagree. Something is keeping him here...

Maybe deep down he's really a closeted atheist deeply questioning his faith and using his conformation bias, he's warping it into confirming his faith?

Actually, I feel this line of discussion is much more interesting than anything Ce says...

Why does Ce stay?

He's said it all repeatedly...why bother?


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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12-05-2013, 01:32 PM
RE: the God term
(12-05-2013 01:15 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(11-05-2013 09:10 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Like the god term?

Just a word given by men, who created something in their image to explain everything .

Got it...good.

Shop fly.
You have reframed the issue and created a straw man argument. I was talking about the term Love not the term God.

What's the name of this thread? see the problem is I actually mean what I say, unlike you!

Shoo fly


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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12-05-2013, 01:42 PM
RE: the God term
(12-05-2013 01:26 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 12:24 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Christ does nothing. He is not here, probably never was in the way you mean. Your posts where you claim to have explained yourself are nothing but repetition of the words Truth God and Love always capitalised as if that adds any extra meaning.

As I have noted before your personal theology is based on ignorance but as of now it seems that it is an enforced ignorance. You don't want to learn the truth because you already created one you like better than reality and for that I pity you. You rely on nothing but word games and fallacies and when confronted with them you either ignore the criticism or spout inanities in the form of a mantra "God is Love is Truth is God is Love is Truth is God..."

As to your God of love, if on the impossible chance he were to exist, he has a lot to answer for and I doubt he would be able to and not be worse than your Satan.

Wholeheartedly agree. The whole circular argument was succinctly stated too many times and each time it's refuted. But then Ce changes it..just a little and feigns ignorance, but repeats the same convoluted and specious mantra. And the whole thing begins anew. He's already said he won't agree to simply disagree. Something is keeping him here...

Maybe deep down he's really a closeted atheist deeply questioning his faith and using his conformation bias, he's warping it into confirming his faith?

Actually, I feel this line of discussion is much more interesting than anything Ce says...

Why does Ce stay?

He's said it all repeatedly...why bother?

I gave an armchair psychology break down of him back a hundred pages or so ago. He's what's known as a seeker. Early tragedy in his own life lead him to question authority and leave the catholic faith. He also has very deep parental issues due to being brought up in a broken home. He has admitted to trust issues and a rough patch in his marriage.

Everything added up means he has used his touchy feely 60's hippy version of God and Jesus (Think Godspell) as a sort of substitute Father Figure. But deep down he is aware, maybe only subconsciously, of the holes in his argument and the circular nature of it. He is very emotionally invested in this construct but because it is a construct of his own making he can see the seams.

Thus he feels the need to "go to bat" for his version of "the one true Dog" because if he didn't he would have to admit to himself that it is all smoke and no fire. The man behind the curtain is CE and that scares him to his bones.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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12-05-2013, 02:28 PM (This post was last modified: 12-05-2013 03:15 PM by childeye.)
RE: the God term
(12-05-2013 10:40 AM)KVron Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 10:27 AM)Chas Wrote:  childeye: God is Love.
everyone else: No, love is an emotion.
childeye: God is Love. Love is Truth.
everyone else: That's your definition.
childeye: God is Love.
everyone else: Love is a human emotion.
childeye: God is Truth is Love.
everyone else: You haven't responded to any of the comments.
childeye: God is Love.
everyone else: WTF.


Glad to be of service.

Much appreciated, dear Chas!!
Childeye: How does an atheist define God?
Atheists: 1) We don't define God... 2)God is wishful thinking 3) God is superstition..4) God is religion..5) God could be an inner dimensional alien who uses Love like a drug.
Childeye: I consider the term God as a moral absolute. For example it would be synonymous to a moral Truth founded on the spiritual existence of Love or empathy. My reasons for not believing in religion are because I view religion as mankinds varying images of god but not necessarily thee God. But as a moral absolute, I therefore must believe everyone has some image of god.
Atheist: You are a troll trying to poison our minds with this bullshit.
Childeye: Actually you are conflating religion with God and creating a straw man argument which confounds your thoughts and brings about false conclusions. The proof of this is that the New Testament is about everyone coming to know God for themselves. If you understood that the Christ said that no one can come to me except God draw him, then you would know that a True Christian could never possibly troll.
Atheist: You think you're smarter than us don't you? Well, most of us used to be christians and we now have come to our senses and no longer need to bow down in ignorance and worship a superstition.
Childeye: Again you are mistaken and coming to false conclusions based on a false premise. If you could see the Truth of it, you would understand that True worship is drawn out by the True worthiness of the object of worship and is therefore most sincere. What you are describing is butt kissing.
Atheist: So what is spritual Truth supposed to even mean?
Childeye: It means there is a moral Truth that exists that is Love.
Atheist: All Truth is completely subjective.
Childeye: No, we all have subjective perspectives of the Truth but the Truth itself exists separate from our differing and unique subjective views. Morality is relative to an absolute.
Atheist: Morality is relative to differing cultures and places.
Childeye: So, do you think It's okay to eat your neighbors baby, because without an absolute there really would be no right or wrong in such a mindset?
Atheist: If I were brought up a canniball then I could see how that would be morally okay, but our society does not accept such behavior.
Childeye: So let me get this straight, it would not bother you to eat your neighbors baby if it was acceptable in society?
Atheist; 1) Maybe yes... 2) No...3) Much joking about eating a baby.
Childeye: Then let me ask you this. If we were trying to survive and there wasn't enough food for both of us, and I killed myself so that you would have food, would you Love me?
Atheist: 1)yes...2) probably yes.
Childeye: Well that is what the Spirit of Christ is. So you are no different than me for Loving the Christ. So if you think I'm stupid for loving the Spirit of Christ, your reasoning is hypocritical. After all, I'm just saying that Love is good and you agree.
Atheist: why do you keep saying our reasoning is hypocritical?
Childeye: Because there is a blindiness that occurs in mankind when they believe there is no spiritual Truth. This Truth defines the true meanings of all binary moral terms which in semantics change meanings depending on whether you are walking away from that Truth into ignorance or towards the Truth into knowledge. Hence peoples brains get lost in the semantics. A persons moral spirit is dependent upon what they see as true. Consequently if you walk away and deny the Truth of Love you only deny yourself, and consequently all such reasoning that denies this Truth ends in hypocrisy and becomes lost in semantics. Therefore one must have faith to walk towards the Light of it.
Atheist: You're playing word games. You've said nothing but the same old crap. That doesn't make God Love just because you make up such an absurd notion.
Childeye: No really, I didn't make it up. People have been believing this for thousands of years before you or I were even born. Here's proof. 1 John 4:8
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
Atheist: Still people invented it.
Childeye: People didn't invent Love.
Atheist: Love is an emotion.
Childeye: Yes, but that is what the word spirit means.
Atheist: Love is just chemicals in the brain.
Childeye: But of course it stands to reason that God would enable a way for us to learn what Love is and experience it. It is the most meaningful thing in life and that's a fact.
Atheist: Still we learn it.
Childeye: Yes, since it is a Truth which is a spiritual knowledge. But mostly we learn how we take it for granted.
Atheist: Yours is just another number of gods, and we will destroy it just like all the others. Love is just another process of evolution and natural selection.
Childeye: Actually we know that time is a part of the creation. All God would have to do to prove He is God, is foretell what would happen in the future and bring it to come to pass. And this has happened concerning the Gospel and the New Testament. Moreover, this is not my God but everyone's God. Love is the one moral Truth that can live in all men.
Atheist: You've said nothing but the same thing over and over and over, God is Love blablabla.
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12-05-2013, 02:42 PM
RE: the God term
(12-05-2013 01:32 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 01:15 PM)childeye Wrote:  You have reframed the issue and created a straw man argument. I was talking about the term Love not the term God.

What's the name of this thread? see the problem is I actually mean what I say, unlike you!

Shoo fly
But you took someone elses post wherein he and I were talking about the term Love.
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12-05-2013, 02:47 PM
RE: the God term
(12-05-2013 01:42 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 01:26 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Wholeheartedly agree. The whole circular argument was succinctly stated too many times and each time it's refuted. But then Ce changes it..just a little and feigns ignorance, but repeats the same convoluted and specious mantra. And the whole thing begins anew. He's already said he won't agree to simply disagree. Something is keeping him here...

Maybe deep down he's really a closeted atheist deeply questioning his faith and using his conformation bias, he's warping it into confirming his faith?

Actually, I feel this line of discussion is much more interesting than anything Ce says...

Why does Ce stay?

He's said it all repeatedly...why bother?

I gave an armchair psychology break down of him back a hundred pages or so ago. He's what's known as a seeker. Early tragedy in his own life lead him to question authority and leave the catholic faith. He also has very deep parental issues due to being brought up in a broken home. He has admitted to trust issues and a rough patch in his marriage.

Everything added up means he has used his touchy feely 60's hippy version of God and Jesus (Think Godspell) as a sort of substitute Father Figure. But deep down he is aware, maybe only subconsciously, of the holes in his argument and the circular nature of it. He is very emotionally invested in this construct but because it is a construct of his own making he can see the seams.

Thus he feels the need to "go to bat" for his version of "the one true Dog" because if he didn't he would have to admit to himself that it is all smoke and no fire. The man behind the curtain is CE and that scares him to his bones.

I've said that before to him. He seemed rather non-plussed -- he never addressed it one way or another. The whole god thing is bent and twisted to fit what he wants to believe to be truth.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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12-05-2013, 03:06 PM (This post was last modified: 12-05-2013 03:22 PM by childeye.)
RE: the God term
(12-05-2013 01:42 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 01:26 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Wholeheartedly agree. The whole circular argument was succinctly stated too many times and each time it's refuted. But then Ce changes it..just a little and feigns ignorance, but repeats the same convoluted and specious mantra. And the whole thing begins anew. He's already said he won't agree to simply disagree. Something is keeping him here...

Maybe deep down he's really a closeted atheist deeply questioning his faith and using his conformation bias, he's warping it into confirming his faith?

Actually, I feel this line of discussion is much more interesting than anything Ce says...

Why does Ce stay?

He's said it all repeatedly...why bother?

I gave an armchair psychology break down of him back a hundred pages or so ago. He's what's known as a seeker. Early tragedy in his own life lead him to question authority and leave the catholic faith. He also has very deep parental issues due to being brought up in a broken home. He has admitted to trust issues and a rough patch in his marriage.

Everything added up means he has used his touchy feely 60's hippy version of God and Jesus (Think Godspell) as a sort of substitute Father Figure. But deep down he is aware, maybe only subconsciously, of the holes in his argument and the circular nature of it. He is very emotionally invested in this construct but because it is a construct of his own making he can see the seams.

Thus he feels the need to "go to bat" for his version of "the one true Dog" because if he didn't he would have to admit to himself that it is all smoke and no fire. The man behind the curtain is CE and that scares him to his bones.
Indeed this is a very close analysis of my motivations in seeking Truth. I would only add that it is not my consruct. I have said this many times. Many people have had similar experiences and come to know that God is Love, and even with perfectly sound evidence. Having said this, yes I found myself through dying to my own convictions concieved in ignorance while finding life in the Truth of the Christ.
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12-05-2013, 03:27 PM
RE: the God term
(12-05-2013 12:47 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(11-05-2013 09:10 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  People have suffered and become insane for centuries by the thought of eternal punishment after death. Wouldn't it be better to depend on blind matter (...) than by a god who puts out traps for people, invites them to sin, and allows them to sin and commit crimes he could prevent. Only to finally get the barbarian pleasure to punish them in an excessive way, of no use for himself, without them changing their ways and without their example preventing others from committing crimes.
Baron d'Holbach
You already do depend on blind matter. For this is the source of your words which are clearly without understanding. The tale of the ephod by Childeye:

So God had delivered a great victory unto Gideon only after Gideon finally trusted God that he would need few men to destroy a vast army. And so Gideon wanting to commemorate the great and marvelous work done by God, took all the gold of the defeated army and melted it into a single ephod, a sacrament that was a symbol of the sacred event. But after generations passed the ephod turned into a place of whoredom as thousands would come to pray to God and ask for things or even just to touch the ephod.

So then came atheists whose mission was to destroy the imaginary things that enslaved men's minds. For they had heard of the golden god that people regarded and worshipped. And after the atheists arrived, they watched with sincere pity the spectacle before them as people crawled on their hands and knees weeping with outstretched arms towards the ephod. Then they boldly and courageously walked through the people, straight up to the ephod. There they grabbed it, held it up and shouted, "you poor stupid people, this is no god and we will prove it to you". And they took the ephod and cracked it open with a huge hammer and continued to break it into the smallest pieces. Then they threw the pieces to the masses and said, "there's your god, go buy groceries". Then they rode off satisfied with themselves, having proven once again that there is no god.

Gideon or Gedeon (pron.: /ˈɡɪd.iː.ən/;[1] Hebrew: גִּדְעוֹן, Modern Gid'on Tiberian Giḏʻôn), which means "Destroyer," "Mighty warrior," or "Feller (of trees)" was, according to the Tanakh, a judge of the Hebrews.

So according to your logic. Muslim terrorists are really loving people, doing gods work. Just like Gideon did?

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
-Baron d'Holbach-
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