the God term
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16-04-2013, 08:28 PM
RE: the God term
Okay, so I finally caught up to the end of this thread, been busy lately. Childeye, I'd like to sum up for you what I've seen here and what you don't seem to be comprehending.

I'm not sure if you were totally aware of exactly the kind of gauntlet you were entering when you proceeded to make your OP. Maybe you were, but if so it's not very apparent. Most of the people on this forum as you've seen are not swayed by presuppositional woo, especially when it's just another twist on christianity that kinda sorta relies on scripture, but makes up alot of spiritual/mystical sounding shit and isn't based on anything other than what you would like to believe is true.

Here's what it essentially sounds like to most on this forum:

"I get a tickley feeling in my taint every time I do something good! That means god is real! Angel
(even though you're just doing what normal good human beings do all the time, no god required)

You have provided nothing of any substance as to why we would think this is anything more than the same kind of delusion shared by all other religious people in the world. And what's more, you've admitted to such. Not sure why you're still trying.

But welcome to the forums!Thumbsup

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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16-04-2013, 08:42 PM
RE: the God term
(16-04-2013 08:28 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  "I get a tickley feeling in my taint every time I do something good! That means god is real! Angel

I just Heart this!


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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16-04-2013, 09:01 PM
RE: the God term
(16-04-2013 08:42 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(16-04-2013 08:28 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  "I get a tickley feeling in my taint every time I do something good! That means god is real! Angel

I just Heart this!

Agreed. Thumbsup
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16-04-2013, 10:23 PM (This post was last modified: 16-04-2013 10:28 PM by childeye.)
RE: the God term
(16-04-2013 08:28 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Okay, so I finally caught up to the end of this thread, been busy lately. Childeye, I'd like to sum up for you what I've seen here and what you don't seem to be comprehending.

I'm not sure if you were totally aware of exactly the kind of gauntlet you were entering when you proceeded to make your OP. Maybe you were, but if so it's not very apparent. Most of the people on this forum as you've seen are not swayed by presuppositional woo, especially when it's just another twist on christianity that kinda sorta relies on scripture, but makes up alot of spiritual/mystical sounding shit and isn't based on anything other than what you would like to believe is true.

Here's what it essentially sounds like to most on this forum:

"I get a tickley feeling in my taint every time I do something good! That means god is real! Angel
(even though you're just doing what normal good human beings do all the time, no god required)

You have provided nothing of any substance as to why we would think this is anything more than the same kind of delusion shared by all other religious people in the world. And what's more, you've admitted to such. Not sure why you're still trying.

But welcome to the forums!Thumbsup
Wow. I appreciate your commentary very much. I do know it is difficult to prove that God is the Love inside of us all when people are opposed to the existence of God even while admitting they experience degrees of the same empathy which I attribute to Him. I appreciate your candor. I hope you will appreciate mine.

I am aware that some here think I am brainwashed, without any critical thinking. They believe I read a book and am parroting what I've read. Yet if I say I did not learn from the book but by revelation, then that is all the more reason to discount me. How can any sound rationale occur under such damned if you do, damned if you don't reasoning? They misunderstand what I write and because of that, they call me disengenuous and pathetic. I am told to shoo fly, and when I eventually leave I am sure they will count it as a victory over religion. And even when I point out that religion murdered the Christ and is not of God, the blindness of their pride does not allow them to consider the truth of it, because it is just a story in a book to them. Wow. I marvel at such a consistency of contradiction. There definitely is no freewill.

I came here to discover why people hate the God I adore with every fiber of my being. It is said in scripture, that God hides Himself from the learned and scholarly yet reveals Himself to mere children. And that He chooses the lowly and abased things to put to nought the high things so that no man may glory. How true you all have made the scriptures. For you ask for substance to prove what is already before your own eyes and you know it not. I say adore the Love that is the goodness of man and worship that which makes us and all life worthwhile. The atheist says, first prove He exists as a Person, but a thing we will not need prove. They are offended by the God of the bible while they hypocritically claim the bible is no proof of God. And so I must conclude it is true that only God Himself can heal such unbelief. Therefore I have hope for all of you, although you will not desire it nor think you need it.
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16-04-2013, 10:28 PM
RE: the God term
(16-04-2013 10:23 PM)childeye Wrote:  I came here to discover why people hate the God I adore with every fiber of my being.

I will not speak for everyone. But myself, I don't hate god. I don't hate things I don't believe in. I just don't feel love for them either.

Shoo fly


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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16-04-2013, 10:45 PM
RE: the God term
(16-04-2013 10:28 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(16-04-2013 10:23 PM)childeye Wrote:  I came here to discover why people hate the God I adore with every fiber of my being.

I will not speak for everyone. But myself, I don't hate god. I don't hate things I don't believe in. I just don't feel love for them either.

Shoo fly
Nontheless your unbelief is centered on Him.
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16-04-2013, 10:46 PM
RE: the God term
So if "god" is the "love inside us all", just call it that. No need to call it anything else. No evidence for anything else. Of course that is a completely 20th/21st Century idea.
No one would necessarily disagree with it, except now that humans have evolved to calling god "love", all that means is that love is what is most important to us.

St. Paul said love was a virtue, not a god, and the greatest of the god's gifts. It's a TOTALLY different concept. It's actually not a very "Christian" concept, in the classical sense. Very non-theological. But that's what it's evolved to in 2013. Interesting.
But no longer a need to call it a god.

The "god" term is meaningless in 2013. It's why many of us are igtheists, or ignostics. Unless you can define it, you can't say anything about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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16-04-2013, 10:48 PM (This post was last modified: 16-04-2013 10:55 PM by evenheathen.)
RE: the God term
(16-04-2013 10:23 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(16-04-2013 08:28 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Okay, so I finally caught up to the end of this thread, been busy lately. Childeye, I'd like to sum up for you what I've seen here and what you don't seem to be comprehending.

I'm not sure if you were totally aware of exactly the kind of gauntlet you were entering when you proceeded to make your OP. Maybe you were, but if so it's not very apparent. Most of the people on this forum as you've seen are not swayed by presuppositional woo, especially when it's just another twist on christianity that kinda sorta relies on scripture, but makes up alot of spiritual/mystical sounding shit and isn't based on anything other than what you would like to believe is true.

Here's what it essentially sounds like to most on this forum:

"I get a tickley feeling in my taint every time I do something good! That means god is real! Angel
(even though you're just doing what normal good human beings do all the time, no god required)

You have provided nothing of any substance as to why we would think this is anything more than the same kind of delusion shared by all other religious people in the world. And what's more, you've admitted to such. Not sure why you're still trying.

But welcome to the forums!Thumbsup
Wow. I appreciate your commentary very much. I do know it is difficult to prove that God is the Love inside of us all when people are opposed to the existence of God even while admitting they experience degrees of the same empathy which I attribute to Him. I appreciate your candor. I hope you will appreciate mine.

I am aware that some here think I am brainwashed, without any critical thinking. They believe I read a book and am parroting what I've read. Yet if I say I did not learn from the book but by revelation, then that is all the more reason to discount me. How can any sound rationale occur under such damned if you do, damned if you don't reasoning? They misunderstand what I write and because of that, they call me disengenuous and pathetic. I am told to shoo fly, and when I eventually leave I am sure they will count it as a victory over religion. And even when I point out that religion murdered the Christ and is not of God, the blindness of their pride does not allow them to consider the truth of it, because it is just a story in a book to them. Wow. I marvel at such a consistency of contradiction. There definitely is no freewill.

I came here to discover why people hate the God I adore with every fiber of my being. It is said in scripture, that God hides Himself from the learned and scholarly yet reveals Himself to mere children. And that He chooses the lowly and abased things to put to nought the high things so that no man may glory. How true you all have made the scriptures. For you ask for substance to prove what is already before your own eyes and you know it not. I say adore the Love that is the goodness of man and worship that which makes us and all life worthwhile. The atheist says, first prove He exists as a Person. They are offended by the God of the bible while they hypocritically claim the bible is no proof of God. And so I must conclude it is true that only God Himself can heal such unbelief. Therefore I have hope for all of you, although you will not desire it nor think you need it.

Look man (woman?), I don't think you are disingenuous or pathetic. I get where you're coming from, and can appreciate your sense of wonder of the world around you. I was more commenting on what you have said in light of the place you have chosen to say it, and your lamenting that you haven't been received more hospitably.

You also seem a bit ambiguous in your claims. At first you agreed that the bible, being written by man, is no source for truth claims about god, yet you go on to quote scripture as though it is god inspired truth. See the problem there?

I agree that you are damned if you do, damned if you don't (not literally, of course) within the line of argument that you have chosen to present. You make no acknowledgement of the earnest struggle that many here on the forum have made to reconcile a belief in the contradictory nature of a perfect supreme being with the natural world we encounter day to day. There are many on these forums who would be more than happy to engage in serious, philosophical discussion without all the fucking around. Problem is, you haven't presented any sort of coherent definition of god that won't end up in circular arguments for "personal revelations" proving god exists.

We've been there too many times before, and guess what? We're all still atheists. Hell, even our resident nice guy christian couldn't resist a poke. Many here have spent a lifetime studying, thinking, listening about what god coulda, woulda, shoulda meant in any real sense in this world. Long story short, he hasn't meant anything except for a lot of different versions of the same story, and a lot of violence, death and confusion for mankind.

You will always find what you are looking for if you look hard enough, even if it doesn't really exist. Always keep that in mind.

edit: Let me rephrase that last bit.
You will always see what you want to see, if it is all you are looking for.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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16-04-2013, 11:05 PM
RE: the God term
(16-04-2013 10:45 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(16-04-2013 10:28 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I will not speak for everyone. But myself, I don't hate god. I don't hate things I don't believe in. I just don't feel love for them either.

Shoo fly
Nontheless your unbelief is centered on Him.

No you're wrong. I don't believe in many things, the idea of god(s) is just one.

But I can understsnd why someone like yourself might feel that way. It's really quite sad.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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17-04-2013, 12:01 AM
RE: the God term
(16-04-2013 10:23 PM)childeye Wrote:  I came here to discover why people hate the God I adore with every fiber of my being. It is said in scripture, that God hides Himself from the learned and scholarly yet reveals Himself to mere children. And that He chooses the lowly and abased things to put to nought the high things so that no man may glory. How true you all have made the scriptures. For you ask for substance to prove what is already before your own eyes and you know it not. I say adore the Love that is the goodness of man and worship that which makes us and all life worthwhile. The atheist says, first prove He exists as a Person, but a thing we will not need prove. They are offended by the God of the bible while they hypocritically claim the bible is no proof of God. And so I must conclude it is true that only God Himself can heal such unbelief. Therefore I have hope for all of you, although you will not desire it nor think you need it.

I don't hate god, and there are more than one out there, all of which you do not believe, or hate, either. I could replace your 'God' with Allah. Zeus. Shiva. Do you 'hate' any of those names? Are you filled with anger when you hear them? I'm not. I'm not angry when I hear you talk about your god, either. If you can't understand that, then you can't understand atheism. The annoyance you're feeling is towards your rhetoric, which we hear over and over again from different religions. Just imagine how many times I've heard similar arguments from other, non-christian religions. Others who have felt their god's love. Others who know that their god is the one true god. Others who give testimony. Others who see the truth of their scriptures. There are even scientologists who can debate well. It gets old.

It is not hypocritical to be offended by the bible. It talks of men cooking with poop, bears mauling children, foreskins being given as gifts, plagues, the rape of women, the flooding of the entire planet, and eternal damnation. How is that not offensive to you? I don't read other books about those things. As far as I know, no other book even has such a barbaric collection of stories.

Let me relate to you on familiar ground: Jesus' own disciples were said to be in disbelief when he rose and returned. He walked through the front door and that wasn't convincing enough. So don't feel bad that you aren't succeeding with words.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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