the God term
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18-04-2013, 05:17 PM
RE: the God term

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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18-04-2013, 05:19 PM
RE: the God term
(18-04-2013 01:23 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(18-04-2013 12:45 PM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  He said you forgot to explain what you meant, not you forgot to copy paste a definition.
I'm saying Love doesn't die even though flesh does..

Prove it. It's entirely dependent on brain chemistry and memory, (which is entirely dependent on genetics, and brain chemistry, and sensory input).
Provide a mechanism for it's non-death.
Do people who lose their memories have the same emotions towards their previous loved ones, as before ? No.
Also provide a mechanism by which "love" made 600 sextillion starts, and millions of galaxies.

Nothing "is" the way it is, because you say so.

The moon is made of green cheese, because I said so.
It is THE ONE TRUTH, because I said so.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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18-04-2013, 05:24 PM
RE: the God term
(18-04-2013 05:08 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(18-04-2013 04:09 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  The part that is in bold is stupid. Let's just say, for instance, you DO have to believe in SOMETHING. Just because you have to believe in something, doesn't mean you have to believe in something that is most probably false. There is no good evidence of God/gods, or at least none that I have seen. Even your argument is dependent on the Bible being an accurate representation of actual History.

Here is a better argument, and a retort to you: If you have to believe in something, why not believe something that has good, verifiable, testable and confirm-able evidence for it? Having good evidence is better than having no evidence at all.
Fisrt of all, I fail to see what is stupid about someone losing their life to save someone else. I would applaud that quality in any man. I don't know how read up on this thread you are. We are talking about why we believe when there is no evidence.

You are talking about believing without evidence.

Skeptics do not believe without evidence.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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18-04-2013, 05:25 PM
RE: the God term
(18-04-2013 05:08 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(18-04-2013 04:09 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  The part that is in bold is stupid. Let's just say, for instance, you DO have to believe in SOMETHING. Just because you have to believe in something, doesn't mean you have to believe in something that is most probably false. There is no good evidence of God/gods, or at least none that I have seen. Even your argument is dependent on the Bible being an accurate representation of actual History.

Here is a better argument, and a retort to you: If you have to believe in something, why not believe something that has good, verifiable, testable and confirm-able evidence for it? Having good evidence is better than having no evidence at all.
Fisrt of all, I fail to see what is stupid about someone losing their life to save someone else. I would applaud that quality in any man. I don't know how read up on this thread you are. We are talking about why we believe when there is no evidence.

No, you must have misunderstood me. I wasn't criticizing giving ones life for a fellow human being. I was criticizing your argument. "If you have to believe in something, believe in Jesus because he died for you."

If you want to talk about Morality, I can dance that tango too. Morality has its base in evolution. Or at least, in the sense that the most basic, and therefore the most obvious, moral tenets have a naturalistic explanation.

We humans are a social species, and thus, it is majorly beneficial that we band together to better increase our survival. Tell me, who would you rather band together with: A nice, gentle, and compassionate person, or a sociopathic, dictorial, and not all together person?

The choice should be obvious.

Now, I am not saying that ALL morals are programmed into your DNA, that's not what I am arguing. I am saying that positive social interactions that aid in survival can be passed down as well. Sacrificing ones self is not exactly one of those morals that "Help you survive" but I never said evolution was the SOLE controller/contributor of morality.

Society has a major amount of control in morality. This is quite obvious when looking at the different societies, and their respective morality. You will see some similarities, but those are only the obvious morals, and sometimes, you will see conflicting results. Society is the one that propagates the idea of sacrifice being a good thing, and indeed, sometimes it is. But, I don't see how believing in the idea of self-sacrifice necessarily equates to God.

God, as defined usually, is a supernatural being. Self-sacrifice is not that

Belief in self-sacrifice =/= Belief in God.

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18-04-2013, 05:31 PM
RE: the God term
(18-04-2013 03:57 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  Chimpanzees actually do show love and compassion, and altruism. And language and tool use. So you're ignorant of primatology.

What experiments are you talking about with regard to love? What you just said makes absolutely no sense. This is going to be like your Egypt crap isn't it, where you saw a TV show or read something on the internet, then didn't do any further research and embellished it in your mind...
No Phaedrus LOL... How do I explain. If you read the thread I did plenty of research. Did post something, not the tv show. It remains debatable to the open minded. Suffice it to say the Jews are real, the Christ happened.

I agree chimpanzees do show Love and compassion. The experiments took three sets of monkeys and their newborns. One set was allowed to be raised by their Mother for all their adolescence. The second were kept form their Mother half of their adolescence, the third were kept away from theri Mothers their entire adolescence. The first group grew up secure, showing caring sharing and trusting characteristics. The second were more skittish unsure and afraid, more prone to violence. The third grew up basically insane in a constant state of fear.
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18-04-2013, 05:37 PM
RE: the God term
(18-04-2013 05:31 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(18-04-2013 03:57 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  Chimpanzees actually do show love and compassion, and altruism. And language and tool use. So you're ignorant of primatology.

What experiments are you talking about with regard to love? What you just said makes absolutely no sense. This is going to be like your Egypt crap isn't it, where you saw a TV show or read something on the internet, then didn't do any further research and embellished it in your mind...
No Phaedrus LOL... How do I explain. If you read the thread I did plenty of research. Did post something, not the tv show. It remains debatable to the open minded. Suffice it to say the Jews are real, the Christ happened.

I agree chimpanzees do show Love and compassion. The experiments took three sets of monkeys and their newborns. One set was allowed to be raised by their Mother for all their adolescence. The second were kept form their Mother half of their adolescence, the third were kept away from theri Mothers their entire adolescence. The first group grew up secure, showing caring sharing and trusting characteristics. The second were more skittish unsure and afraid, more prone to violence. The third grew up basically insane in a constant state of fear.

Sorry, dude, but the monkey thing isn't really evidence of much beyond nature vs. nurture, in which case it is kind of hurting your argument about inherent love/empathy.

The Jews are real, so is every other race/culture on earth. That also is not saying much.

The Christ happened? Hmmmmm....that, good sir, is a good debate. You should look to youtube for some videos by Richard Carrier or Bart Ehrman for some decent scholarly "atheistic" viewpoints of the historicity of the christ.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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18-04-2013, 05:40 PM
RE: the God term
(18-04-2013 04:52 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(18-04-2013 04:09 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  The part that is in bold is stupid. Let's just say, for instance, you DO have to believe in SOMETHING. Just because you have to believe in something, doesn't mean you have to believe in something that is most probably false. There is no good evidence of God/gods, or at least none that I have seen. Even your argument is dependent on the Bible being an accurate representation of actual History.

Here is a better argument, and a retort to you: If you have to believe in something, why not believe something that has good, verifiable, testable and confirm-able evidence for it? Having good evidence is better than having no evidence at all.

This person doesn't think. All they care about are the warm fuzzy endorphins that are released by the chemical reaction in their brain whenever they think of what they perceive to be gods love. They don't realize that there are many things that can give you the same feelings and they haven't a thing to do with god.
You know you can just say it to me. Yes I care about the warm fuzzy endorphina that are released when I perceive God's Love. I aslo cry tears of sorrow and joy. So what? So do you. No there aren't any other things that give me the same feelings.
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18-04-2013, 05:48 PM
RE: the God term
You have to understand, Child, most theists come here to debate with atheists already read up on at least the basic arguments against god's existence, and armed with at least some (if feeble) apologetics with which to counter. It's tough to have to start from scratch, but I understand you are just seeking. You seem like a nice enough guy, even if you are "undereducated". I'll be the first to admit that I'm undereducated as fuck. But I'm doing my best to learn what I can each day, which is one reason I like these forums. People here are smart as fuck and it makes me nervous to post, but I learn a lot of shit.

That's also the reason most of my posts are done while shitfaced. (liquid courage) I hate to be seen as an idiot even if anonymous. (where's the shitfaced smiley?)

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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18-04-2013, 05:58 PM
RE: the God term
(18-04-2013 05:40 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(18-04-2013 04:52 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  This person doesn't think. All they care about are the warm fuzzy endorphins that are released by the chemical reaction in their brain whenever they think of what they perceive to be gods love. They don't realize that there are many things that can give you the same feelings and they haven't a thing to do with god.
You know you can just say it to me. Yes I care about the warm fuzzy endorphina that are released when I perceive God's Love. I aslo cry tears of sorrow and joy. So what? So do you. No there aren't any other things that give me the same feelings.

Right over your head.

Frusty

And if nothing else is capable of giving you that feeling...I really pity you.

Shoo fly


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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18-04-2013, 06:09 PM
RE: the God term
Exodus not happening is not really debatable... Every scholar except biased wingnuts with agendas to push acknowledges that there is no evidence that any of the events in Exodus ever occurred, and as best as archaeologists can determine the Israelites descended directly from the Canaanites, even worshiping the same god (El). The only thing that archaeologists can find to differentiate early Israelites from late Canaanites is the absence of pig bones. The Israelites were Canaanites; all that changed was the culture. The religion didn't even change into monotheism until 300 years later, after the Jews switched from worshiping "El Elyon" (god on high) to Yahweh (the god of war). Oh, didn't I mention they were polytheists who believed in multiple gods, including El Elyon, Baal, Ashera, and Yahweh? Yeah, it wasn't until around 300 BC, after Isaiah, that the Jews became monotheistic and their holy texts were revised to merge El Elyon and Yahweh into one character, demonizing Baal, and erasing or nearly erasing all other deities from the text.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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