the God term
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19-04-2013, 01:12 AM
RE: the God term
(19-04-2013 12:57 AM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  
(19-04-2013 12:03 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Not Bucky, but the messiah was supposed to a military leader, reunite the Jewish people. End hunger, disease, war...

Build the third temple.

Everyone would be Jewish then...no other religions...No killing either like convert or die (yanno?)

Bunch of other stuff but I'm tired.

There never was supposed to be a birth in a manger...there was never a reason for a crucifixion, or resurrection, if someone did all those things why would he need to die? He was supposed to be of the linage of David on his fathers side -- but be a regular person with no supernatural mumbo crap.

There's something I'm forgetting...maybe Bucky will fill in. Smile

Pixie dust? Think of a wonderful thought?

Yeah, well they dance their way around that one. All of Matthew 1 is establishing the lineage through Joseph. Then at the end, he says, Joseph was not the father. Quite the turn-about. Then the apologists say "well he was adopted", and it was through Mary etc etc. All of which is ridiculous, as Matthew would never have spent ALL of a chapter of his gospel doing the linneage that way, if he was trying to use it, THAT way.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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19-04-2013, 01:15 AM
RE: the God term
(15-04-2013 10:34 AM)childeye Wrote:  
(15-04-2013 10:24 AM)guitar_nut Wrote:  Atheists don't define god. Theists define their god (or at least try, in a very abstract way, to define it) and atheists decide whether the evidence supports the claims of the theist.

For example, you're a Christian. You probably have some basic ideas about your god and those ideas probably came from a version of the Bible:

1. Created the universe;
2. Loves you;
3. Rewards/punishes you for your actions in this life;
4. Sent his only son to die for you;

If you spoke to me about your god, I'd expect you to be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the bible is indeed the inspired word of your god and is correct. I'd also need you to define your god. Finally, I'd need you to explain why the proof and evidence of other religions is not acceptable, but yours is.

Keep in mind that some atheists don't claim there is absolutely, 100%, no god. The door is always open if the evidence becomes available.

Ask yourself why you don't believe in Islam, Buddhism, Zeus, Scientology, Mormonism, etc. What evidence do they lack to convince you that theirs is the true way? That will get you closer to understanding the mind of an atheist.
I consider the term God as a moral absolute. For example it would be synonymous to a moral Truth founded on the spiritual existence of Love or empathy. My reasons for not believing in religion are because I view religion as mankinds varying images of god but not necessarily thee God. But as a moral absolute, I therefore must believe everyone has some image of god.

No they don't. There are no moral absolutes. Morality does not come from the gods. If someone were trying to kill you, or you were a soldier, you would kill, and be required to kill. There is no instance of a moral "absolute", nor can you provide one.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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19-04-2013, 03:13 AM
RE: the God term
(19-04-2013 12:57 AM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  
(19-04-2013 12:03 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Not Bucky, but the messiah was supposed to a military leader, reunite the Jewish people. End hunger, disease, war...

Build the third temple.

Everyone would be Jewish then...no other religions...No killing either like convert or die (yanno?)

Bunch of other stuff but I'm tired.

There never was supposed to be a birth in a manger...there was never a reason for a crucifixion, or resurrection, if someone did all those things why would he need to die? He was supposed to be of the linage of David on his fathers side -- but be a regular person with no supernatural mumbo crap.

There's something I'm forgetting...maybe Bucky will fill in. Smile

Pixie dust? Think of a wonderful thought?

Thats going to be the the essence of his big revel (if he ever does it he may pull a sexualypleasingjeebustroll move and just drag this out forever) Notice he got very upset when people started bringing out actual facts about his happy little fairy tale.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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19-04-2013, 06:06 AM
Re: the God term
Personally I think we can declare this debate won. We may not have yet convinced this clown, but I don't think any Christian could read this thread without conceding that ChildishThing has no case, no argument, and no chance.

Let's keep going though, with the history lesson. Personslly, I'm a little fuzzy on the period between Isaiah and Jebus, call it 300 BC to 0 AD.
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19-04-2013, 06:23 AM (This post was last modified: 19-04-2013 04:34 PM by Full Circle.)
RE: the God term
(18-04-2013 10:13 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(18-04-2013 09:47 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  yeah, yeah. lesson learned.....Weeping

I guess I kinda, I dunno, thought that I could just reason somebody into reality the same way christians think that they can....not provide any sort of coherent argument for anything whatsoever and still believe that anything they say holds weight even after being theologically and intellectually totally disemboweled time and time again. My bad.

We all have to go through it, don't be so hard on yourself. Both here in the forum and out there in the "real" world I've felt just like you..."thought that I could just reason somebody into reality".

Having these discussions, more often than not, helps me more than it helps them in the sense that I strenghten my convictions. Being on this forum has helped me immensely in several respects: 1) I'm know I'm not alone in my skepticism 2) I've learned a great deal about science, philosophy, history and 3) It has been illuminating, fun and also tragic discussing with theists about my perspective and their beliefs .

In the end you can disembowel someone's woo woo theologically and intellectually but I always keep all the following in mind:

"Old beliefs die hard even when demonstrably false." - E. O. Wilson

"The most dangerous place to stand is in between someone and what they want to believe." - unknown

"The truths of religion are never so well understood as by those who have lost the power of reason." - Voltaire

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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19-04-2013, 07:59 AM
RE: the God term
(19-04-2013 06:23 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(18-04-2013 10:13 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  I guess I kinda, I dunno, thought that I could just reason somebody into reality the same way christians think that they can....not provide any sort of coherent argument for anything whatsoever and still believe that anything they say holds weight even after being theologically and intellectually totally disemboweled time and time again. My bad.

We all have to go through it, don't be so hard on yourself. Both here in the forum and out there in the "real" world I've felt just like you..."thought that I could just reason somebody into reality".

Having these discussions, more often than not, helps me more than it helps them in the sense that I strenghten my convictions. Being on this forum has helped me immensely in several respects: 1) I'm know I'm not alone in my skepticism 2) I've learned a great deal about science, philosophy, history and 3) It has been illuminating, fun and also tragic discussing theists about my perspective and their beliefs .

In the end you can disembowel someone's woo woo theologically and intellectually but I always keep all the following in mind:

"Old beliefs die hard even when demonstrably false." - E. O. Wilson

"The most dangerous place to stand is in between someone and what they want to believe." - unknown

"The truths of religion are never so well understood as by those who have lost the power of reason." - Voltaire

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

I know. I'm just pissed that this joker totally pulled the wool over my eyes pretending to be some naive noob looking for a real conversation. Angry

Still waiting for his all so important definition of "a christ" or "anointed". Not that it matters much, but we can at least have this out.

What say you, child? We can handle this like gentlemen, or we can get into some gangsta shit.

(I know I said I'd be gone today, but the kid came down with a nasty cold so we gotsta take it easy)

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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19-04-2013, 08:25 AM
the God term
(19-04-2013 06:23 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(18-04-2013 10:13 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  I guess I kinda, I dunno, thought that I could just reason somebody into reality the same way christians think that they can....not provide any sort of coherent argument for anything whatsoever and still believe that anything they say holds weight even after being theologically and intellectually totally disemboweled time and time again. My bad.

We all have to go through it, don't be so hard on yourself. Both here in the forum and out there in the "real" world I've felt just like you..."thought that I could just reason somebody into reality".

Having these discussions, more often than not, helps me more than it helps them in the sense that I strenghten my convictions. Being on this forum has helped me immensely in several respects: 1) I'm know I'm not alone in my skepticism 2) I've learned a great deal about science, philosophy, history and 3) It has been illuminating, fun and also tragic discussing theists about my perspective and their beliefs .

In the end you can disembowel someone's woo woo theologically and intellectually but I always keep all the following in mind:

"Old beliefs die hard even when demonstrably false." - E. O. Wilson

"The most dangerous place to stand is in between someone and what they want to believe." - unknown

"The truths of religion are never so well understood as by those who have lost the power of reason." - Voltaire

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

These are new to me. Thanks, FC!

Here's one of my favorites:

“To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.”
― Thomas Paine, The American Crisis
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19-04-2013, 08:56 AM
RE: the God term
(19-04-2013 12:57 AM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  
(19-04-2013 12:03 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Not Bucky, but the messiah was supposed to a military leader, reunite the Jewish people. End hunger, disease, war...

Build the third temple.

Everyone would be Jewish then...no other religions...No killing either like convert or die (yanno?)

Bunch of other stuff but I'm tired.

There never was supposed to be a birth in a manger...there was never a reason for a crucifixion, or resurrection, if someone did all those things why would he need to die? He was supposed to be of the linage of David on his fathers side -- but be a regular person with no supernatural mumbo crap.

There's something I'm forgetting...maybe Bucky will fill in. Smile

Pixie dust? Think of a wonderful thought?

No....Clap your hands if you believe!


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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19-04-2013, 09:07 AM
RE: the God term
(19-04-2013 01:12 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(19-04-2013 12:57 AM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Pixie dust? Think of a wonderful thought?

Yeah, well they dance their way around that one. All of Matthew 1 is establishing the lineage through Joseph. Then at the end, he says, Joseph was not the father. Quite the turn-about. Then the apologists say "well he was adopted", and it was through Mary etc etc. All of which is ridiculous, as Matthew would never have spent ALL of a chapter of his gospel doing the linneage that way, if he was trying to use it, THAT way.

I always kinda looked at that as "Matthew's" Oh shit moment. He does go through all this stuff about Joseph and trying to establish the linage to David. Then realized somewhere along the way that wouldn't wash...Either because he didn't do the other stuff or the virgin birth part wasn't going to fly.

Ooooooh ya...I did say no manger birth...I should have said NO VIRGIN birth. I guess that's kinda implied.

For me at least debunking the NT was far easier than unraveling the old testament.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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19-04-2013, 09:33 AM
RE: the God term
(18-04-2013 11:13 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Listen idiot. If you're gonna play games, then fuck off.
An "annointed one" in Hebrew culture was just that.
If you, just like all you Christians are going to lie about what it means, and cook up your own definition, feel free.
The Ancient Near East is my field. So don't try to pull any shit here. I don't need Wiki for your common definitions.
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/emagazine/011.html

A lot of people (and things) were annointed. Originally only the priests and temple junk were annointed to "set it apart" as a "holy". Later prophets and kings were also annointed. Many cultures used it also for healing and ridding the sick of their demons, or the preparation of dead bodies for an after-life. They got it from the surrounding cultures. Babylon annointed people, as did the Egyptians.
So, Childish, it depends on the context, and culture, and time period you're talking about. Even James, (Jebus' supposed brother), used it for healing. However Saul of Tarsus said Jebus' was the "Annointed One", clearly indicating that to him, Jebus had been "exalted" to his office/station, as THE messiah. Many Christian still do it. The Catholics actually have a "Chrism Mass" on Maundy Thursday morning for the blessing of new oils for annointings at baptisms and ordinations, episcopal consecrations, and their Sacrament of the Sick for the next year. So what were you going to say was YOURn definition of "annointing" ? I think the Anglicans do something similar. It has many meanings/uses now.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...other-look
Respectfully Sir, you do know some things about ointments and what they do, I'll give you that. While you have given some examples of what it might do metaphorically speaking, you are really just throwing out ephods and don't know what a Christ is. Hence you have no right to talk about Christianity with any credibility.
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