the God term
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21-04-2013, 08:41 AM
RE: the God term
(21-04-2013 08:10 AM)childeye Wrote:  
(20-04-2013 07:55 AM)morondog Wrote:  But he's a True Christian ™ ! I know this because he says so. Only True Christians ™ claim to be True Christians ™ so there's no possibility of error.
Respectfully Sir, I honestly don't see how a True Christian could claim to be a false christian and yet remain a True Christian. Nor do I see how a false christian can claim to be a true christian and not be false. If I may make an observation from what feeble brain God has blessed me with, the problem with atheism as I see it. There is no absolute in atheist recognition, so all that you say ends in hypocritical reasoning.

How d'ya know you're not a false Christian claiming to be a true one then ? You think everyone else who *claims* to be a true Christian but *is* not, according to you, has to *know* that they're false ? They can't be honestly mistaken ?
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21-04-2013, 08:44 AM
RE: the God term
(20-04-2013 11:08 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Hey childeye can I ask you something?

According to John 3:17, "But whoever has the world’s possessions and sees his fellow Christian in need and shuts off his compassion against him, how can the love of God reside in such a person?"

So, there are people in Africa who are Christian and who are in dire need of shit, and yet here you are on your $1,000 computer, using your pay monthly internet, living in a couple hundred thousand dollar house, or couple hundred dollars a week in rent or mortgage, with your however much car etc...

So how can you lecture us about love and god when John said it very clear that people with possessions who do not help those in need, such as yourself, cannot possible have the love of god reside in them??
Who are you to lecture us when you yourself know nothing of the love of god?
I commend you Sir for the question you have posed, but respectfully you are in error. I have not lectured anyone saying they don't know the Love of God. I have been saying they just don't recognize this love as God.
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21-04-2013, 08:53 AM
RE: the God term
(21-04-2013 08:44 AM)childeye Wrote:  
(20-04-2013 11:08 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Hey childeye can I ask you something?

According to John 3:17, "But whoever has the world’s possessions and sees his fellow Christian in need and shuts off his compassion against him, how can the love of God reside in such a person?"

So, there are people in Africa who are Christian and who are in dire need of shit, and yet here you are on your $1,000 computer, using your pay monthly internet, living in a couple hundred thousand dollar house, or couple hundred dollars a week in rent or mortgage, with your however much car etc...

So how can you lecture us about love and god when John said it very clear that people with possessions who do not help those in need, such as yourself, cannot possible have the love of god reside in them??
Who are you to lecture us when you yourself know nothing of the love of god?
I commend you Sir for the question you have posed, but respectfully you are in error. I have not lectured anyone saying they don't know the Love of God. I have been saying they just don't recognize this love as God.

So lemme get my "love detector" out - a.k.a. boner - and lo and behold! It ain't pointing up, it is pointing over to the table where the latest issue of Harper's Bazaar currently resides. With my Gwynnies on the cover. Heart

There is nothing that god can do that Gwyneth Paltrow cannot do better. For instance, on May 15, 2000, Gwyneth Paltrow created me; from me, the universe. So the Earth cannot be more than thirteen years old.

Even more accurately, there was no five thirty this morning. Is that the equivocation you are looking for? Demand of atheists that we provide the scientific evidence from the world's leading minds in areas of cosmology, philosophy, and biology, while sit there with your dick in your hand saying "goddidit?"

Is that the empathy of which you speak? Consider

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21-04-2013, 09:05 AM
RE: the God term
(20-04-2013 11:14 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(20-04-2013 01:32 AM)childeye Wrote:  I guess you could say I implied you did something wrong. But I did not mean it so as to cast blame. I just meant I think you are not believing in the right thing about the Christ. I see a divine Love on the cross, that is what I believe in.

Uh huh. See again....you're saying that I just didn't believe right....

You make an assumption based on nothing that I'm the one who failed. But really it was the evidence or lack of it, that actually failed. Your words about god is love and the true christian are so full of arrogance it's almost horrifying. You believe your doing it all the right way. And most importantly ONLY YOU could possibly know the truth. At least you seem to think you do.
I thank you for your response, particularly the last line highlighted in bold. But if you would please notice; Right or wrong, I have described what I believe is there on the cross which should be believed in, a divine Love that would lay down one's life to save others even lesser than himself. I have not felt you personally failed at believing something, particularly considering that believing is not a prerogative. And I apologize to you that I have not articulated that adequately. Therefore, I respectfully ask that you accept my attempt to rectify the misunderstanding as proof of my sincerity.
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21-04-2013, 09:14 AM
RE: the God term
(21-04-2013 08:44 AM)childeye Wrote:  
(20-04-2013 11:08 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Hey childeye can I ask you something?

According to John 3:17, "But whoever has the world’s possessions and sees his fellow Christian in need and shuts off his compassion against him, how can the love of God reside in such a person?"

So, there are people in Africa who are Christian and who are in dire need of shit, and yet here you are on your $1,000 computer, using your pay monthly internet, living in a couple hundred thousand dollar house, or couple hundred dollars a week in rent or mortgage, with your however much car etc...

So how can you lecture us about love and god when John said it very clear that people with possessions who do not help those in need, such as yourself, cannot possible have the love of god reside in them??
Who are you to lecture us when you yourself know nothing of the love of god?
I commend you Sir for the question you have posed, but respectfully you are in error. I have not lectured anyone saying they don't know the Love of God. I have been saying they just don't recognize this love as God.

You've evaded the question about how you can claim to know of the love of god while at the same time you do not live the way the bible tells people with possessions they should live.

It's an important question--there are glaring examples of greed and hoarding of wealth by religious leaders of all faiths and of all flavors of Christianity.

To quote Ghandi, "I know of no one who has done more for humanity than Jesus. In fact, there is nothing wrong with Christianity ... The trouble is with you Christians. You do not begin to live up to your own teachings. " Why not give up all your possessions and do the work of the lord? Put your faith in the hands of god. Give no thought for the morrow, for your god will give you all you need while you are in the service of him. If Christians actually did this, we'd probably hear a lot less from religious leaders tarted up in tawdry garb pleading unctuously for money to pay for your salvation.
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21-04-2013, 09:16 AM
RE: the God term
(21-04-2013 08:41 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(21-04-2013 08:10 AM)childeye Wrote:  Respectfully Sir, I honestly don't see how a True Christian could claim to be a false christian and yet remain a True Christian. Nor do I see how a false christian can claim to be a true christian and not be false. If I may make an observation from what feeble brain God has blessed me with, the problem with atheism as I see it. There is no absolute in atheist recognition, so all that you say ends in hypocritical reasoning.

How d'ya know you're not a false Christian claiming to be a true one then ? You think everyone else who *claims* to be a true Christian but *is* not, according to you, has to *know* that they're false ? They can't be honestly mistaken ?
A most excellent and delightful question. Delightfully I will say that of course they are honestly mistaken, otherwise the forgivness on the cross is a sham. And this is how I know I am a True Christian.
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21-04-2013, 09:29 AM
RE: the God term
(21-04-2013 08:10 AM)childeye Wrote:  
(20-04-2013 07:55 AM)morondog Wrote:  But he's a True Christian ™ ! I know this because he says so. Only True Christians ™ claim to be True Christians ™ so there's no possibility of error.
Respectfully Sir, I honestly don't see how a True Christian could claim to be a false christian and yet remain a True Christian. Nor do I see how a false christian can claim to be a true christian and not be false. If I may make an observation from what feeble brain God has blessed me with, the problem with atheism as I see it. There is no absolute in atheist recognition, so all that you say ends in hypocritical reasoning.

Strawman fallacy. (Hang on here folks, we'll get through all of them eventually)

A thinking person should recognize that surely, at the end of all understanding there will be absolutes. The problem is that we do not yet possess this understanding.

Your answer to this is to claim that since there must be absolutes, god must be at the core. But to believe this without question is to decide to stop thinking, end inquiry, and surrender to superstition.

I think it's nice that you simply call this unknown absolute love. In fact it tickles the taint quite nicely. But the fact that emotions such as love and empathy exist, they in no way, shape or form require anyone to accept that ancient superstition tells us where these emotions come from. Especially when these superstitions were obviously derived and built upon earlier superstitions that you clearly believe were false.

If we must choose a form of deity in which to believe, I would think that a quick look around the world would lead us to choose a deity more aligned with jealousy and malicious intent. Especially if we add hell into the equation.

You continue to say that you have provided proof of god, yet you have to agree that the only thing you have provided is proof that you believe that which you would like to believe, and nothing more.

I urge you to provide evidence that the existence of love and empathy is seen in god's creation in any recognizable form other than in the personalities of life forms that have evolved with a higher intelligence.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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21-04-2013, 09:39 AM
RE: the God term
(21-04-2013 08:13 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(21-04-2013 08:10 AM)childeye Wrote:  Respectfully Sir, I honestly don't see how a True Christian could claim to be a false christian and yet remain a True Christian. Nor do I see how a false christian can claim to be a true christian and not be false. If I may make an observation from what feeble brain God has blessed me with, the problem with atheism as I see it. There is no absolute in atheist recognition, so all that you say ends in hypocritical reasoning.

You don't seem to know the definition of 'hypocritical'. In fact, you seem to have a problem with word meanings generally.
I appreciate your forthright observation. It is particularly difficult when the semantics of the same words are reversed on meaning. Hence the atheist says, we don't believe in divine love and it is to them a positive while the believers count it a negative. Hence all binary moral terminology is confounded by this effect and the result is a cognitive disconnect. In the moral and immoral parlance of the believer, hypocritical thinking is that which at the end of reasoning results in doing unto others that which you would not want done to you.
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21-04-2013, 09:42 AM
RE: the God term
(21-04-2013 09:29 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(21-04-2013 08:10 AM)childeye Wrote:  Respectfully Sir, I honestly don't see how a True Christian could claim to be a false christian and yet remain a True Christian. Nor do I see how a false christian can claim to be a true christian and not be false. If I may make an observation from what feeble brain God has blessed me with, the problem with atheism as I see it. There is no absolute in atheist recognition, so all that you say ends in hypocritical reasoning.

Strawman fallacy. (Hang on here folks, we'll get through all of them eventually)

A thinking person should recognize that surely, at the end of all understanding there will be absolutes. The problem is that we do not yet possess this understanding.

Your answer to this is to claim that since there must be absolutes, god must be at the core. But to believe this without question is to decide to stop thinking, end inquiry, and surrender to superstition.

I think it's nice that you simply call this unknown absolute love. In fact it tickles the taint quite nicely. But the fact that emotions such as love and empathy exist, they in no way, shape or form require anyone to accept that ancient superstition tells us where these emotions come from. Especially when these superstitions were obviously derived and built upon earlier superstitions that you clearly believe were false.

If we must choose a form of deity in which to believe, I would think that a quick look around the world would lead us to choose a deity more aligned with jealousy and malicious intent. Especially if we add hell into the equation.

You continue to say that you have provided proof of god, yet you have to agree that the only thing you have provided is proof that you believe that which you would like to believe, and nothing more.

I urge you to provide evidence that the existence of love and empathy is seen in god's creation in any recognizable form other than in the personalities of life forms that have evolved with a higher intelligence.

Has kiddypeeps hit all the logical fallacies yet? Frankly he bores me now. He brings nothing to the conversation except circular reasoning and a few good OOC quotes to laugh at. I will say his determined cognitive dissonance in the face of any fact or line of reason is impressive, yet utterly self-defeating.


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21-04-2013, 09:49 AM
RE: the God term
(21-04-2013 09:42 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(21-04-2013 09:29 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  Strawman fallacy. (Hang on here folks, we'll get through all of them eventually)

A thinking person should recognize that surely, at the end of all understanding there will be absolutes. The problem is that we do not yet possess this understanding.

Your answer to this is to claim that since there must be absolutes, god must be at the core. But to believe this without question is to decide to stop thinking, end inquiry, and surrender to superstition.

I think it's nice that you simply call this unknown absolute love. In fact it tickles the taint quite nicely. But the fact that emotions such as love and empathy exist, they in no way, shape or form require anyone to accept that ancient superstition tells us where these emotions come from. Especially when these superstitions were obviously derived and built upon earlier superstitions that you clearly believe were false.

If we must choose a form of deity in which to believe, I would think that a quick look around the world would lead us to choose a deity more aligned with jealousy and malicious intent. Especially if we add hell into the equation.

You continue to say that you have provided proof of god, yet you have to agree that the only thing you have provided is proof that you believe that which you would like to believe, and nothing more.

I urge you to provide evidence that the existence of love and empathy is seen in god's creation in any recognizable form other than in the personalities of life forms that have evolved with a higher intelligence.

Has kiddypeeps hit all the logical fallacies yet? Frankly he bores me now. He brings nothing to the conversation except circular reasoning and a few good OOC quotes to laugh at. I will say his determined cognitive dissonance in the face of any fact or line of reason is impressive, yet utterly self-defeating.

Agreed. 84 pages of this shit and there has not been one argument from him any different than the OP. Drinking Beverage

But hey, we've had some laughs and got to know eachother a little better, so it hasn't been a complete waste of time. Smile

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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