the cliche', "why do bad things happen to good people"
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30-06-2014, 11:17 PM
the cliche', "why do bad things happen to good people"
I just posted my introduction today and got a lot of very warm welcomes, so thank you all for that. I just wanted to go ahead and post what I guess you would call the final straw that made me really come to terms with what a sham Christianity really is. My aunt died a couple of years ago and at first I clung to Christianity as my way of coping with the loss as I tried to push the anger and questioning to the side. The more time has went on the more clearly I'm able to think about things. My aunt was like a second mother to me... she was only 39 and was one of the best people in this world. She was an elementary teacher and only brought good things to this world. The longer time went on, the angrier I got that a god that's supposed to be just and merciful could take someone like her and leave all the scum on this earth to rape and murder. Not only that but the blatant lie in the bible that says something like if two or more people pray for something it will be done... that's clearly not true because there were hundreds praying for my aunt. She was the first person I've ever lost that I truly loved. I always thought death would make some sense, that somehow if it was 'meant to be,' like christians always say it is, 'whatever happens is god's will'... that it would at least feel like it was supposed to happen. Her death did not, and it still does not. It was wrong, it wasn't fair, it wasn't 'meant to happen,' there was no reason for it. It just happened. Like all the other bad stuff that happens in this world. Realizing that actually has helped me to cope. Now I don't feel like I have to figure out why she died, what good reason there was for it that god didn't save her. I know death is a pretty generic reason of giving up faith and honestly I would have never thought I'd be one of those. I thought no matter what happened I'd hold true to the faith and trust in god... but here I am. Sorry to get so morbid on you guys so quickly... just wanted to share some of my story.
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30-06-2014, 11:43 PM
RE: the cliche', "why do bad things happen to good people"
Hug

Sorry for your loss.

Welcome to the forum.

Much cheers to you and yours. Smile
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30-06-2014, 11:44 PM
RE: the cliche', "why do bad things happen to good people"
(30-06-2014 11:17 PM)Roger_the_alien Wrote:  I just posted my introduction today and got a lot of very warm welcomes, so thank you all for that. I just wanted to go ahead and post what I guess you would call the final straw that made me really come to terms with what a sham Christianity really is. My aunt died a couple of years ago and at first I clung to Christianity as my way of coping with the loss as I tried to push the anger and questioning to the side. The more time has went on the more clearly I'm able to think about things. My aunt was like a second mother to me... she was only 39 and was one of the best people in this world. She was an elementary teacher and only brought good things to this world. The longer time went on, the angrier I got that a god that's supposed to be just and merciful could take someone like her and leave all the scum on this earth to rape and murder. Not only that but the blatant lie in the bible that says something like if two or more people pray for something it will be done... that's clearly not true because there were hundreds praying for my aunt. She was the first person I've ever lost that I truly loved. I always thought death would make some sense, that somehow if it was 'meant to be,' like christians always say it is, 'whatever happens is god's will'... that it would at least feel like it was supposed to happen. Her death did not, and it still does not. It was wrong, it wasn't fair, it wasn't 'meant to happen,' there was no reason for it. It just happened. Like all the other bad stuff that happens in this world. Realizing that actually has helped me to cope. Now I don't feel like I have to figure out why she died, what good reason there was for it that god didn't save her. I know death is a pretty generic reason of giving up faith and honestly I would have never thought I'd be one of those. I thought no matter what happened I'd hold true to the faith and trust in god... but here I am. Sorry to get so morbid on you guys so quickly... just wanted to share some of my story.


I know what you felt about your aunt. My sister passed away after struggling with cancer, and Sunday was her funeral service. She was 29yrs old when she passed. The well meaning pastor during the service addressed the question of how or why such a thing could happen to someone so young and someone who, like your aunt, was a very thoughtful and caring person (so much more than I am). I give the pastor credit for not trying to come up with some reason. He answered at least honestly enough by saying there was no reason, and that the faith does not try to answer these questions that are not answerable. I think some people would try to say that these things "happen for a reason" as some family and friends said in their attempts to console our family.

The pastor said instead that believers should rely on their faith and hope that the promise of life after death would be delivered on. Throughout the service there were pleas and prayers in the prepared responses asking to have the strength to believe in this message. I couldn't help but thinking throughout that we were all being asked to believe a lie, that the reason we had to "pray that we might believe" that there was life after death was because it wasn't particularly believable. I came to this funeral service already a firm atheist. I found nothing from the religious aspects of the service that moved me to reconsider my beliefs and only saw nothing more than self affirming wishful thinking.
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30-06-2014, 11:50 PM
RE: the cliche', "why do bad things happen to good people"
Religion never seems to help make anyone's death easier, except the thought of your own. When you find yourself at a funeral, surrounded by crying theists, that's one of those moments where you find yourself thinking "They totally know it's bullcrap".

That said, sorry for your loss, that sounds terrible. I lost an aunt in her late thirties, too. I didn't see her much, but I cried like a baby. I don't think heaven or god even crossed my mind through the whole thing despite still being religious at the time.
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30-06-2014, 11:52 PM
RE: the cliche', "why do bad things happen to good people"
Thank you for sharing your story. I am sorry for your loss.

Religions people like to think of atheists as angry, or sad people. We are certainly opinionated, some of us even combative, but overall I have found athiest to be some of the most optimistic and life affirming people I have ever met. When there is no god you don't have to be angry at anything. Like you put so well, you are free to accept the world just for what it is. There is no one to blame, only things you can change and many more things you can't Sad. Such is the nature of it all. I am glad atheism has helped you gain perspective on your aunts passing. It can be comforting to imagine our loved ones living in another place, but it doesn't help us reconcile their suffering and the injustice of it all.
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01-07-2014, 01:53 PM
RE: the cliche', "why do bad things happen to good people"
(30-06-2014 11:17 PM)Roger_the_alien Wrote:  I just posted my introduction today and got a lot of very warm welcomes, so thank you all for that. I just wanted to go ahead and post what I guess you would call the final straw that made me really come to terms with what a sham Christianity really is. My aunt died a couple of years ago and at first I clung to Christianity as my way of coping with the loss as I tried to push the anger and questioning to the side. The more time has went on the more clearly I'm able to think about things. My aunt was like a second mother to me... she was only 39 and was one of the best people in this world. She was an elementary teacher and only brought good things to this world. The longer time went on, the angrier I got that a god that's supposed to be just and merciful could take someone like her and leave all the scum on this earth to rape and murder. Not only that but the blatant lie in the bible that says something like if two or more people pray for something it will be done... that's clearly not true because there were hundreds praying for my aunt. She was the first person I've ever lost that I truly loved. I always thought death would make some sense, that somehow if it was 'meant to be,' like christians always say it is, 'whatever happens is god's will'... that it would at least feel like it was supposed to happen. Her death did not, and it still does not. It was wrong, it wasn't fair, it wasn't 'meant to happen,' there was no reason for it. It just happened. Like all the other bad stuff that happens in this world. Realizing that actually has helped me to cope. Now I don't feel like I have to figure out why she died, what good reason there was for it that god didn't save her. I know death is a pretty generic reason of giving up faith and honestly I would have never thought I'd be one of those. I thought no matter what happened I'd hold true to the faith and trust in god... but here I am. Sorry to get so morbid on you guys so quickly... just wanted to share some of my story.

I feel you on that. I'm a teacher and have had several instances where we found out that students of mine were being sexually abused at home, and I'd say "Where the fuck was God when these kids needed him when they were being abused? Why did he allow this to happen to them?" There is nothing that a child could do that would justify that happening to them. What's always the response: "We don't know God's plan." Well, if these kids suffering sexual abuse is part of God's plan, then God is a fucking asshole.

The whole "God's plan" defense is just stupid, especially when combined with the prayer thing. It completely contradicts the whole "God's plan" defense. They're saying that if you pray for something and you get it, it's because you prayed and God answered your prayer. If you pray for something and don't get it, then it wasn't in "God's plan". Well, if God has a divine plan, then why the fuck does it matter whether somebody prays or not? Is God going to just change his divine plan for every asshole with a prayer? It's stupid and makes absolutely no sense.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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01-07-2014, 02:10 PM
RE: the cliche', "why do bad things happen to good people"
Roger and Bryan,
I'm sorry for your losses. Sometimes it takes a tragedy for us to wake up and face the world as it really is, not some cozy fantasy world that we have constructed in our minds. This argues for strength of mind.

The only danger you will face is from theists claiming that you abandoned your faiths because of anger directed against God for the bad outcome. While that may have been the precipitating event, I suspect that reasoned thought is the more likely cause.

Keep thinking and posting. Welcome aboard.

Doc
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01-07-2014, 02:49 PM
RE: the cliche', "why do bad things happen to good people"
This also reminds me about why theists only credit good to their god and never the bad. Whenever they pray for something and it happens (obviously not because of the prayer), they thank their god, and when they pray for something and it doesn't happen they find some sort of excuse and god never gets the blame. The success rate of prayer happens to fare no better than chance. Truly, nothing fails like prayer.

I'm glad you've recognized the false respite religion offers. I could never be comfortable in lies, and certainly not in deluding myself to a false truth because I'm not able to face up to reality. Your aunt has been greatly impressionable to you as a person and you've taken something from it. Your memories with her are now priceless and precious, they are not cheap because life is not eternal. The life here, the only life we have, thats what matters.

Now, you can also recognize what's really behind funerals. When someone dies, it's the living that suffer. The dead cannot, and that should give you relief. Around you are theists self comforting themselves, quite selfishly, and making up lies to get through the night which is sad. You're stronger than they are. I'm confused to why religious people mourn the "death" of somebody when they don't even believe they died. I'm not being irreverent in saying this, but it's just puzzling as to how somebody who genuinely believes that can actually be affected by it. They act as though the person is gone forever, when they don't believe that.

When somebody dies, their ideas and memories live on until you die, which is essentially forever in perspective. Your aunts teachings and sayings will stick with you. I'm not saying death isn't sad, what I'm saying is that it doesn't have to be. You've now become uniquely liberated and have been able to see what you weren't able to before. You've truly taken something out of this, your aunts death has made you stronger.

My contribution to your case holds little experience for me personally though. I haven't seen many loved ones die yet, and so that's something I'm going to have to deal with when it comes to that. Death impacts each individual differently, (I've seen people not cry at funerals when somebody very close to them has died, and others cry lakes), everyone has their own way of showing emotion and their own way of reacting to unfortunate circumstances. If her death is still bothering you to the extent where you feel you cannot cope, please check out "Grief Beyond Belief"

http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2011/0...ith-death/

How do you deal with death — your own, or that of people you love — when you don’t believe in God or an afterlife?
Especially when our culture so commonly handles grief with religion… in ways that are so deeply ingrained, people often aren’t aware of it?


I think somewhere in there, or in something else I read on the site itself, there is a physicist who beautifully articulates how exactly connected we are - right down to the atomic level.

Everyday is judgement day. Use your judgement, use reason.
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01-07-2014, 07:15 PM
RE: the cliche', "why do bad things happen to good people"
(30-06-2014 11:17 PM)Roger_the_alien Wrote:  It was wrong, it wasn't fair, it wasn't 'meant to happen,' there was no reason for it. It just happened. Like all the other bad stuff that happens in this world. Realizing that actually has helped me to cope. Now I don't feel like I have to figure out why she died, what good reason there was for it that god didn't save her. I know death is a pretty generic reason of giving up faith and honestly I would have never thought I'd be one of those. I thought no matter what happened I'd hold true to the faith and trust in god... but here I am. Sorry to get so morbid on you guys so quickly... just wanted to share some of my story.

Well said and I agree. Christians give god the credit, no matter what. When something awful happens, "god works in mysterious ways". When something good happens, "thank god, praise god, blah, blah".

All the unspeakably horrible things that occur in our world, and somehow the religious always give god two-thumbs up?! No

The bible says that whatever you ask for in his name, he will do! If this were true, we wouldn't have places like St. Judes, children wouldn't have to endure years of abuse, or starvation, etc.

I'm glad you've come to terms with this. Welcome to the world of rational thinking.

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. ~Mark Twain
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01-07-2014, 07:28 PM
RE: the cliche', "why do bad things happen to good people"
(01-07-2014 07:15 PM)CindysRain Wrote:  
(30-06-2014 11:17 PM)Roger_the_alien Wrote:  It was wrong, it wasn't fair, it wasn't 'meant to happen,' there was no reason for it. It just happened. Like all the other bad stuff that happens in this world. Realizing that actually has helped me to cope. Now I don't feel like I have to figure out why she died, what good reason there was for it that god didn't save her. I know death is a pretty generic reason of giving up faith and honestly I would have never thought I'd be one of those. I thought no matter what happened I'd hold true to the faith and trust in god... but here I am. Sorry to get so morbid on you guys so quickly... just wanted to share some of my story.

Well said and I agree. Christians give god the credit, no matter what. When something awful happens, "god works in mysterious ways". When something good happens, "thank god, praise god, blah, blah".

All the unspeakably horrible things that occur in our world, and somehow the religious always give god two-thumbs up?! No

The bible says that whatever you ask for in his name, he will do! If this were true, we wouldn't have places like St. Judes, children wouldn't have to endure years of abuse, or starvation, etc.

I'm glad you've come to terms with this. Welcome to the world of rational thinking.

If "gawd" is supposed to be the Lord and Master over all creation, then he has to accept the credit for good as well as the blame for the bad...

All that it takes is one bad day, and you'd be just like me.
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