the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
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15-06-2016, 09:59 AM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(15-06-2016 09:42 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(15-06-2016 09:36 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  If your accusing of redefining, yes it does matter how you define it.


Words like morally Good and Bad have a variety of meanings, often dependent on one's moral philosophy and outlook. Consequentialist and those who subscribe to virtue ethics, don't have a shared understanding of what Good is. One defines good in light of consequences, and actions, the other in regards to intention.

So when you appeal to this "formally defined" concept of Good, please tell me if the formal definition is in relationship to actions, and consequences, or in relationship to one's intentions? You must know that right, since you seem to be so well acquainted with this supposed formal definition.

"If your accusing of redefining, yes it does matter how you define it. "

Still shifting.

"Words like morally Good and Bad have a variety of meanings, often dependent on one's moral philosophy and outlook. Consequentialist and those who subscribe to virtue ethics, don't have a shared understanding of what Good is. One defines good in light of consequences, and actions, the other in regards to intention.

So when you appeal to this "formally defined" concept of Good, please tell me if the formal definition is in relationship to actions, and consequences, or in relationship to one's intentions? You must know that right, since you seem to be so well acquainted with this supposed formal definition."


Still shifting.

Ah yes, nice dodge. You continually appealed to a formal definition of Good, yet have failed to define whether this formal definition of Good, is defined by consequences, or intentions.

You keep repeating it, yet fail to answer questions in regards to how it's supposedly defined. Your dishonesty is showing.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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15-06-2016, 10:01 AM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(15-06-2016 09:59 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(15-06-2016 09:42 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  "If your accusing of redefining, yes it does matter how you define it. "

Still shifting.

"Words like morally Good and Bad have a variety of meanings, often dependent on one's moral philosophy and outlook. Consequentialist and those who subscribe to virtue ethics, don't have a shared understanding of what Good is. One defines good in light of consequences, and actions, the other in regards to intention.

So when you appeal to this "formally defined" concept of Good, please tell me if the formal definition is in relationship to actions, and consequences, or in relationship to one's intentions? You must know that right, since you seem to be so well acquainted with this supposed formal definition."


Still shifting.

Ah yes, nice dodge. You continually appealed to a formal definition of Good, yet have failed to define whether this formal definition of Good, is defined by consequences, or intentions.

You keep repeating it, yet fail to answer questions in regards to how it's supposedly defined. Your dishonesty is showing.

Still accusing others of your failings. Dodging points being made to you by trying to shift the burden of proof is intentionally dishonest. Drinking Beverage

Not that I expected you to engage honestly.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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15-06-2016, 10:11 AM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(15-06-2016 08:56 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  This is why Christianity is failing, society has judged that this biblical morality is abhorrent and all you can do is say -I know your morality is subjective but so is mine. Killing babies is ok!

Actually that's not true. The christianity that is declining the most significantly, are the more progressive traditions. Evangelicals, Fundamentalist, etc.. are the least effected by the decline of Christianity. If your hypothesis were true than the Christianity most reflective of a liberal, progressive moral outlooks should be the one's with the least levels of decline, but it's not.

If one were a management consultant, concerned with addressing declining church membership, the last thing one would suggest is adapting more progressive, more liberal, humanistic minded moral perspectives.

And this decline is primarily a western phenomenon.

In China there's currently more Christians than cardholding members of the communist party, and within 20 years, China is projected to be the largest Christian nation in the world.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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15-06-2016, 10:13 AM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(15-06-2016 10:01 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(15-06-2016 09:59 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Ah yes, nice dodge. You continually appealed to a formal definition of Good, yet have failed to define whether this formal definition of Good, is defined by consequences, or intentions.

You keep repeating it, yet fail to answer questions in regards to how it's supposedly defined. Your dishonesty is showing.

Still accusing others of your failings. Dodging points being made to you by trying to shift the burden of proof is intentionally dishonest. Drinking Beverage

Not that I expected you to engage honestly.

You're the one appealing to the supposed "formal definition" of good, and refuse to answer whether this formal definition is defined by actions and consequences, or by intention. Is that too hard of a question for you to answer? Or does your dishonesty just prevent you from doing that?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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15-06-2016, 10:18 AM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(15-06-2016 10:13 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(15-06-2016 10:01 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Still accusing others of your failings. Dodging points being made to you by trying to shift the burden of proof is intentionally dishonest. Drinking Beverage

Not that I expected you to engage honestly.

You're the one appealing to the supposed "formal definition" of good, and refuse to answer whether this formal definition is defined by actions and consequences, or by intention.

Words have definitions, and you apply the same word differently.

Good


God murders millions of people in the flood (even admitted it was a mistake afterwards, so he/it clearly isn't perfect).

If a human were to indiscriminately murder millions of people, would they be good?

This is your hypocrisy. God does a morally abhorrent thing, but he is still good. Man does a morally abhorrent thing and they can be bad or have done a bad thing.

Simply defining your god as "good" in order to make your morally defunct god a morally decent thing, is apologetic bullshit being preached.

Who exactly do you think gives a shit about your god on here? Consider

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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15-06-2016, 10:36 AM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(15-06-2016 10:18 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(15-06-2016 10:13 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  You're the one appealing to the supposed "formal definition" of good, and refuse to answer whether this formal definition is defined by actions and consequences, or by intention.

Words have definitions, and you apply the same word differently.

Good


God murders millions of people in the flood (even admitted it was a mistake afterwards, so he/it clearly isn't perfect).

If a human were to indiscriminately murder millions of people, would they be good?

This is your hypocrisy. God does a morally abhorrent thing, but he is still good. Man does a morally abhorrent thing and they can be bad or have done a bad thing.

Simply defining your god as "good" in order to make your morally defunct god a morally decent thing, is apologetic bullshit being preached.

Who exactly do you think gives a shit about your god on here? Consider

I would point out that until he demonstrates the existence of his god, it remains a moot point. Secular morality is all that we have.

Even worse for him: Objective morality would apply to his god as well.

Fuck. We've posted it before in response to the same bullshit.

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15-06-2016, 10:48 AM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(15-06-2016 10:18 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  If a human were to indiscriminately murder millions of people, would they be good?

We've killed millions of people, many of which were innocent woman and children, as collateral damage, in numerous wars, for the sake of national defense, dropped nuclear bombs on Hiroshima, Nagasaki, I don't judge any of these actions as immoral. So why should I judge the actions of the God character in the bible doing the same, as immoral?

Quote:This is your hypocrisy. God does a morally abhorrent thing, but he is still good. Man does a morally abhorrent thing and they can be bad or have done a bad thing.

Some people find our most recent war, the bombing of Nagasaki, and Hiroshima, as morally wrong, as morally abhorrent. I don't, even I think such actions are misguided. I don't judge those who supported these actions, or partook in them as immoral.

Quote:Simply defining your god as "good" in order to make your morally defunct god a morally decent thing, is apologetic bullshit being preached.

You're some liberal minded humanist, we disagree on what it means to be morally decent, with or without God being involved. We'll likely disagree on what it means for human beings to be moral or decent. You perhaps see morality strictly through the lens of actions and consequences, I don't. Regardless if we're talking about God or man.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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15-06-2016, 11:14 AM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(15-06-2016 10:36 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  I would point out that until he demonstrates the existence of his god, it remains a moot point. Secular morality is all that we have.

The problem of evil does not require one to demonstrate the existence of God, the OP makes no such requirements either for his allegations.

Quote:Even worse for him: Objective morality would apply to his god as well.

The reality is, there are all different standards for what's moral or not. Consequentialist and those who subscribe to virtue ethics, have a different standards. One moral outlook is dependent on intentions, the other see intentions as entirely irrelevant, and only the consequences matter.

Whether I find my particular moral outlook to be objective is not particularly relevant, since you'll deem it as subjective regardless. In fact the idea that I view it as objective, does nothing for the problem of evil, since it's not the same standard as yours.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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15-06-2016, 11:17 AM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(15-06-2016 10:48 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(15-06-2016 10:18 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  If a human were to indiscriminately murder millions of people, would they be good?

We've killed millions of people, many of which were innocent woman and children, as collateral damage, in numerous wars, for the sake of national defense, dropped nuclear bombs on Hiroshima, Nagasaki, I don't judge any of these actions as immoral. So why should I judge the actions of the God character in the bible doing the same, as immoral?

Quote:This is your hypocrisy. God does a morally abhorrent thing, but he is still good. Man does a morally abhorrent thing and they can be bad or have done a bad thing.

Some people find our most recent war, the bombing of Nagasaki, and Hiroshima, as morally wrong, as morally abhorrent. I don't, even I think such actions are misguided. I don't judge those who supported these actions, or partook in them as immoral.

Quote:Simply defining your god as "good" in order to make your morally defunct god a morally decent thing, is apologetic bullshit being preached.

You're some liberal minded humanist, we disagree on what it means to be morally decent, with or without God being involved. We'll likely disagree on what it means for human beings to be moral or decent. You perhaps see morality strictly through the lens of actions and consequences, I don't. Regardless if we're talking about God or man.

"We've killed millions of people, many of which were innocent woman and children, as collateral damage, in numerous wars, for the sake of national defense, dropped nuclear bombs on Hiroshima, Nagasaki, I don't judge any of these actions as immoral. So why should I judge the actions of the God character in the bible doing the same, as immoral?"

Because you're morally defunct it seems. Drinking Beverage

"Some people find our most recent war, the bombing of Nagasaki, and Hiroshima, as morally wrong, as morally abhorrent. I don't, even I think such actions are misguided. I don't judge those who supported these actions, or partook in them as immoral. "

Like I said, you're morally defunct Drinking Beverage

"You're some liberal minded humanist, we disagree on what it means to be morally decent, with or without God being involved. We'll likely disagree on what it means for human beings to be moral or decent. You perhaps see morality strictly through the lens of actions and consequences, I don't. Regardless if we're talking about God or man."

Still shifting the burden of proof, but now it's just getting sad.

Not only do you simply define your god as "good" in order to reconcile the evil shit it has done as "good" but now you're refraining from defining evil/bad things humans have done as bad/evil so that you don't have to call your god evil/bad.

Just contorted and CONTRADICTED "logic" from a morally defunct and dishonest theist. Drinking Beverage

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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15-06-2016, 11:23 AM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(15-06-2016 11:17 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Because you're morally defunct it seems. Drinking Beverage...

Like I said, you're morally defunct Drinking Beverage

That's basically all you have. It's not that i'm inconsistent with my application of what's Good and Bad, whether it comes to God or humans. But that my moral views, are not aligned to your subjective liberal/humanistic moral views, and you find that uncomfortable, disgusting, makes your squeamish.

At the end of the day, it just amounts to someone who is a big fan of country music, offended by Hip Hop fans, since in your view morality is subjective.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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