the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
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13-06-2016, 02:36 PM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(13-06-2016 02:33 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 02:31 PM)carusmm Wrote:  Everything is opinion, except atoms.

If God exists, then he can be Good.

In this regard neither or correct or incorrect, we just have a difference of subjective opinion?

One of us must be wrong.
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13-06-2016, 02:37 PM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(13-06-2016 02:32 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  Morality is relative but if we are to look at the Bible and consider the apparently objective morality of this God character and judge him according to his own standards than factually he is immoral to the highest degree.

He's a hypocrite and if he makes rules just for us humans to abide by and then breaks them himself then the morality is relative to power level and is still subjective, if it was truly objective he would also have to adhere to it along with all of us, since he is not moral even according to his own standards then yes there is a contradiction, a big one.


I thought the moral standards of the bible were abhorrent? Justifying all sorts of violence? Don't atheists often suggest that we shouldn't turn to the bible for our morality because of the seemingly deplorable moral standard it sets?

In this regard, wouldn't it be more accurate to suggest the abhorrent God of Judeo-christinity is consistent with his abhorrent moral standards?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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13-06-2016, 02:39 PM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(13-06-2016 02:36 PM)carusmm Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 02:33 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  If God exists, then he can be Good.

In this regard neither or correct or incorrect, we just have a difference of subjective opinion?

One of us must be wrong.

Is one of us incorrect when one us believes Italian food is the tastiest, and the other believes Indian food is?

It's subjective than neither us are wrong or right here, we just a difference in subjective opinions.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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13-06-2016, 02:40 PM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(13-06-2016 02:37 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 02:32 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  Morality is relative but if we are to look at the Bible and consider the apparently objective morality of this God character and judge him according to his own standards than factually he is immoral to the highest degree.

He's a hypocrite and if he makes rules just for us humans to abide by and then breaks them himself then the morality is relative to power level and is still subjective, if it was truly objective he would also have to adhere to it along with all of us, since he is not moral even according to his own standards then yes there is a contradiction, a big one.


I thought the moral standards of the bible were abhorrent? Justifying all sorts of violence? Don't atheists often suggest that we shouldn't turn to the bible for our morality because of the seemingly deplorable moral standard it sets?

In this regard, wouldn't it be more accurate to suggest the abhorrent God of Judeo-christinity is consistent with his abhorrent moral standards?

Either God is the Good or he is the evil that you must avoid.
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13-06-2016, 02:42 PM (This post was last modified: 13-06-2016 02:47 PM by SitaSky.)
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(13-06-2016 02:31 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  IS the claim that you're not a Good person, if you could stop something bad from happening but don't stop it from happening, a factually true claim?

If you were in a room with a rapist who rapes someone right in front of you and you had a gun and could've overpowered them and stopped the rape from occurring you are actually just a guilty as the rapist, you have committed a crime by just sitting there doing nothing when you could've done something. If you believe rape isn't a crime than "factually" it's totally fine to just sit there and do nothing but "factually" rape is a violation and assault committed on another person's body, it's immoral and if you can't see that then you got problems.
(13-06-2016 02:31 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Is it objectively true?

There is no such thing as objective morality, there are people in this world that think rape is a good thing, they lack empathy and basic human decency and they are subjectively immoral.

(13-06-2016 02:31 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  If I were to claim that you can be a Good, without stopping bad things from happening even when it's within your power to do so, have I made a factually incorrect statement?

It is not a factually incorrect statement to say I could be a God and have the power to stop bad things but to be limited in that I can't actually stop it if I just don't want to. Not stopping a bad thing isn't a question of power, it's a question of morality and will. Right now I have the ability to leave my home with a knife and go stab someone, I won't do that even thought it's in my power to do so, I won't because it's wrong. A God may have the power to do many things but doesn't.

(13-06-2016 02:31 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Or would we just be have differing subjective opinions on the matter?

Yes we do have differing opinions, it's morality and it's subjective, but we can't differ on a factual statement like "Water is wet." that is a fact, unless you want to redefine what "wet" means. If I say "Rape is harmful." that is a factual statement, it's been known to hurt many people and to harm them long term emotionally and physically, we have evidence to prove this. If you say "Rape is not harmful." you would be wrong but if you say "Rape is acceptable to me." that is an opinion.

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13-06-2016, 02:42 PM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(13-06-2016 02:37 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 02:32 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  Morality is relative but if we are to look at the Bible and consider the apparently objective morality of this God character and judge him according to his own standards than factually he is immoral to the highest degree.

He's a hypocrite and if he makes rules just for us humans to abide by and then breaks them himself then the morality is relative to power level and is still subjective, if it was truly objective he would also have to adhere to it along with all of us, since he is not moral even according to his own standards then yes there is a contradiction, a big one.


I thought the moral standards of the bible were abhorrent? Justifying all sorts of violence? Don't atheists often suggest that we shouldn't turn to the bible for our morality because of the seemingly deplorable moral standard it sets?

In this regard, wouldn't it be more accurate to suggest the abhorrent God of Judeo-christinity is consistent with his abhorrent moral standards?
To some people that's the case. To everyone it isn't so abstractions of what the whole us supposed to have thought gets conversation nowhere

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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13-06-2016, 02:46 PM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(13-06-2016 02:39 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 02:36 PM)carusmm Wrote:  One of us must be wrong.

Is one of us incorrect when one us believes Italian food is the tastiest, and the other believes Indian food is?

It's subjective than neither us are wrong or right here, we just a difference in subjective opinions.

If you have a subjective opinion, then you can be wrong. Objectivity is scientific fact.
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13-06-2016, 02:53 PM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(13-06-2016 02:37 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  I thought the moral standards of the bible were abhorrent? Justifying all sorts of violence? Don't atheists often suggest that we shouldn't turn to the bible for our morality because of the seemingly deplorable moral standard it sets?

In this regard, wouldn't it be more accurate to suggest the abhorrent God of Judeo-christinity is consistent with his abhorrent moral standards?

The God of the Bible is subjectively immoral but all of his laws are terrible, it's wrong to steal and it's wrong to kill but since I can admit as an atheist that morality is subjective I can say it's OK to kill in self defense. Yahweh is setting up a moral guideline that is objective, whether the rules are consistent with his behavior is not a matter of debate, he is hypocritical and breaks his own laws repeatedly, he is not objectively following his own standards.

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14-06-2016, 06:28 AM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(13-06-2016 02:53 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  The God of the Bible is subjectively immoral but all of his laws are terrible,

And if one where to hold that the God of the bible is moral, and his laws are moral, he wouldn't be wrong, or logically incorrect, since it's subjective in your view. He would just have a different subjective opinion than you, like brown might be your favorite color, and blue his.

Quote:Yahweh is setting up a moral guideline that is objective, whether the rules are consistent with his behavior is not a matter of debate, he is hypocritical and breaks his own laws repeatedly, he is not objectively following his own standards.

Are they objective or absolute? There is a difference. Absolute would indicate that it's wrong regardless of situation, that one shouldn't lie even it for the sake of saving one's life. That you shouldn't kill someone, even for the sake of saving your family. This doesn't seem to be the moral guidelines of the bible. Objective perhaps, but not absolute.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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14-06-2016, 06:34 AM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(13-06-2016 02:42 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  If you were in a room with a rapist who rapes someone right in front of you and you had a gun and could've overpowered them and stopped the rape from occurring you are actually just a guilty as the rapist, you have committed a crime by just sitting there doing nothing when you could've done something.

No, there's no legal requirement for someone legally permitted to hold a gun, to have to use in when witnessing an attack, or rape. At least not in my state. So you don't have to worry about prosecution, or be found guilty in a court of law for not physically intervening, when you could have.


Your belief that they did something wrong, that they are just as guilty, is just your subjective opinion on the matter, and we can all have differences is subjective opinion, were none of us are necessarily anymore right than the other.

But again, no logical contradictions here.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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