the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
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15-06-2016, 07:16 AM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(15-06-2016 07:12 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
Quote:Holy Text Chapter 1: Omni-god says "thou shalt not kill"
Holy Text Chapter 2: Omni-god says "slay the unbeliever"

Something can't be wrong and not-wrong, isn't that how logic works?

Did I say "christian god"? Did I say "bible"?

It's not a contradiction, unless the rule "thou shalt not kill" is being implied in a absolute sense, suggesting that we shouldn't kill regardless of circumstance or situation, in self-defense, to protect the lives of our families, as capital punishment etc..

It would be a contraction if it stated, or implied, "Thou shall not killed, in no circumstances whatsoever".

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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15-06-2016, 07:23 AM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(15-06-2016 07:14 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  You may think it's subjectively bad for the God of the bible to order and do what he supposedly did in the stories about him. But that's just your subjective opinion.

So killing babies in the flood is ok?
Killing innocent Amelekites is ok?
Visiting iniquity upon 4 generations for the sins of their father is ok?

Would that be your subjective opinion? Good or bad?

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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15-06-2016, 07:27 AM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(15-06-2016 07:23 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(15-06-2016 07:14 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  You may think it's subjectively bad for the God of the bible to order and do what he supposedly did in the stories about him. But that's just your subjective opinion.

So killing babies in the flood is ok?
Killing innocent Amelekites is ok?
Visiting iniquity upon 4 generations for the sins of their father is ok?

Would that be your subjective opinion? Good or bad?

Subjectively good.

And for you it's just subjectively bad right?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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15-06-2016, 07:28 AM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(15-06-2016 07:14 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  No, we just subjectively judge it as good or not. Since you and others here are quick to remind us morality is subjective.

Are you arguing for objective morality?

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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15-06-2016, 07:29 AM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(15-06-2016 07:27 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(15-06-2016 07:23 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  So killing babies in the flood is ok?
Killing innocent Amelekites is ok?
Visiting iniquity upon 4 generations for the sins of their father is ok?

Would that be your subjective opinion? Good or bad?

Subjectively good.

Congratulations, you've abandoned reason for what it says in a book and are on the exact same moral plane as a terrorist.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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15-06-2016, 07:33 AM (This post was last modified: 15-06-2016 07:37 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(15-06-2016 07:29 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(15-06-2016 07:27 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Subjectively good.

Congratulations, you've abandoned reason for what it says in a book and are on the exact same moral plane as a terrorist.

I abandoned reason?

Or did we just have difference in subjective opinion?

How does reason dictate that I'm wrong, since your suggest we're dealing with subjective judgments here, and not an objective moral foundation?

You claim it's unreasonable to believe that such and such actions are subjectively Good, which makes as much sense as claiming that it's unreasonable to believe that Oatmeal Raisin cookies taste good.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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15-06-2016, 07:35 AM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(15-06-2016 07:28 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(15-06-2016 07:14 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  No, we just subjectively judge it as good or not. Since you and others here are quick to remind us morality is subjective.

Are you arguing for objective morality?

According to folks here, since morality is subjective, stating that x is objectively immoral, is to be reduced to subjective moral statements. I'm just granting them that.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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15-06-2016, 07:36 AM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(15-06-2016 07:27 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(15-06-2016 07:23 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  So killing babies in the flood is ok?
Killing innocent Amelekites is ok?
Visiting iniquity upon 4 generations for the sins of their father is ok?

Would that be your subjective opinion? Good or bad?

Subjectively good.

And for you it's just subjectively bad right?

Do you sincerely believe that?

That any atrocity ordered by "god" is good?

Rape, incest, murder, slavery, infanticide and more are all justified in the bible.

Are you saying that it was all ok because god said it was?

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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15-06-2016, 07:40 AM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(15-06-2016 07:35 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(15-06-2016 07:28 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Are you arguing for objective morality?

According to folks here, since morality is subjective, stating that x is objectively immoral, is to be reduced to subjective moral statements. I'm just granting them that.

I asked you a simple, yes or no question.

Quote:Objective Morality
Objective morality is the idea that a certain system of ethics or set of moral judgments is not just true according to a person's subjective opinion, but factually true. Proponents of this theory would argue that a statement like "Murder is wrong" can be as objectively true as "1 + 1 = 2." Most of the time, the alleged source is God, or the Kantian Categorical Imperative; arguably, no objective source of morality has ever been confirmed, nor have any a priori proofs been offered to the effect that morality is anything other than subjective.
link

Are you arguing for objective morality?

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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15-06-2016, 07:41 AM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(15-06-2016 07:36 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Do you sincerely believe that?

That any atrocity ordered by "god" is good?

No.

Quote:Rape, incest, murder, slavery, infanticide and more are all justified in the bible.

Are you saying that it was all ok because god said it was?

No I'm stating that I don't find anything in the bible morally apprehensible, regardless if the stories are true or not, but then again I'm not a liberal minded-humanist either. You may judge such actions a morally bad, I don't.

And you have no basis to claim that I'm wrong, or unreasonable in holding my moral view, since as you stated morality for you is subjective. At best you have a subjective disagreement, as two people with different cookie preferences.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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