the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
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15-06-2016, 07:42 AM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(15-06-2016 07:40 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Are you arguing for objective morality?

No, if it wasn't clear already. I'm not arguing for objective morality.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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15-06-2016, 07:43 AM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(15-06-2016 07:40 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(15-06-2016 07:35 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  According to folks here, since morality is subjective, stating that x is objectively immoral, is to be reduced to subjective moral statements. I'm just granting them that.

I asked you a simple, yes or no question.

Quote:Objective Morality
Objective morality is the idea that a certain system of ethics or set of moral judgments is not just true according to a person's subjective opinion, but factually true. Proponents of this theory would argue that a statement like "Murder is wrong" can be as objectively true as "1 + 1 = 2." Most of the time, the alleged source is God, or the Kantian Categorical Imperative; arguably, no objective source of morality has ever been confirmed, nor have any a priori proofs been offered to the effect that morality is anything other than subjective.
link

Are you arguing for objective morality?

He won't answer that question because he has had his ignorance trounced on numerous threads on this issue by multiple people already.

Now he just sits back and says "since you guys believe in subjective morality, I don't have to bear any burden of proof about my objective morality beliefs. Even if I assert things from the moral objective standpoint. Why? Because other people believe in subjective morality therefore I don't have to prove anything about anything and I can just continue to assert my religious drudgery as if I know what I am doing."

round and round Drinking Beverage

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15-06-2016, 07:45 AM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(15-06-2016 07:42 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(15-06-2016 07:40 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Are you arguing for objective morality?

No, if it wasn't clear already. I'm not arguing for objective morality.

You argue that your god can make no morally bad decisions and that morality emanates from a single source. So now you're just lying...again. Drinking Beverage

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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15-06-2016, 07:46 AM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(15-06-2016 07:45 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You argue that your god can make no morally bad decisions and that morality emanates from a single source. So now you're just lying...again. Drinking Beverage

No, I didn't argue that either, so now you're just lying.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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15-06-2016, 07:48 AM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(15-06-2016 07:46 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(15-06-2016 07:45 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You argue that your god can make no morally bad decisions and that morality emanates from a single source. So now you're just lying...again. Drinking Beverage

No, I didn't argue that either, so now you're just lying.

So, your god can be immoral and morality does not have an objective standard from which it emanates?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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15-06-2016, 07:50 AM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(15-06-2016 07:42 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(15-06-2016 07:40 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Are you arguing for objective morality?

No, if it wasn't clear already. I'm not arguing for objective morality.

It wasn't clear because you do not post honestly. You twist, project, manipulate and dodge.

Since you aren't arguing for objective morality, are you arguing for divine morality?

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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15-06-2016, 07:57 AM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(15-06-2016 07:50 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Since you aren't arguing for objective morality, are you arguing for divine morality?

I'm not arguing for any of those things.

I'm just arguing that believing that an all-powerful God, is perfectly Good, even in light of evil existing in the world is not a logically contradictory belief, since that's what the OP is suggesting and is about.

I can hold to the belief in an omni-God, and acknowledge that evil exists in the world, but the last thing anyone here can argue that this is contradictory, that the existence of evil, negates the Goodness of God, as if their stating an objective fact, when in fact they're not, which they readily acknowledge when stating morality is subjective.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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15-06-2016, 08:01 AM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(15-06-2016 07:41 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  No I'm stating that I don't find anything in the bible morally apprehensible, regardless if the stories are true or not, but then again I'm not a liberal minded-humanist either. You may judge such actions a morally bad, I don't.

Oh really?

I have a proposition for you.

We will compile a list of the atrocities in the bible, like the Amalekite virgins and selling your daughter to her rapist.

We'll say the latest KJV, unless you have a preference. We will include the quoted passages, all the appropriate information etc.

After every quotation, we will add a line reading: "I consider this action to be moral and good".

Then you sign it with your legal name.

Then we publish this document online and offer it to the major newspapers in your town for publication.


If you believe that the actions in the bible were not evil, then you should not have a problem with people knowing that you feel that way.


How does that sound?

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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15-06-2016, 08:02 AM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(15-06-2016 07:57 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(15-06-2016 07:50 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Since you aren't arguing for objective morality, are you arguing for divine morality?

I'm not arguing for any of those things.

I'm just arguing that believing that an all-powerful God, is perfectly Good, even in light of evil existing in the world is not a logically contradictory belief, since that's what the OP is suggesting and is about.

I can hold to the belief in an omni-God, and acknowledge that evil exists in the world, but the last thing anyone here can argue that this is contradictory, that the existence of evil, negates the Goodness of God, as if their stating an objective fact, when in fact they're not, which they readily acknowledge when stating morality is subjective.

No, you can't. You have to redefine what is "good" and "evil" so that what means "good" for god and what means "good" for any other conscious entity are different.

You don't even see the logical contradiction Facepalm

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15-06-2016, 08:04 AM
RE: the contradiction of the all powerful and good god
(15-06-2016 08:02 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  No, you can't. You have to redefine what is "good" and "evil" so that what means "good" for god and what means "good" for any other conscious entity are different.

No, I don't.

I just have to a different subjective concept of what Good means, than you.

Which if you're a liberal minded humanist, we likely do.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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