the marriage parable
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29-11-2016, 01:24 AM (This post was last modified: 29-11-2016 01:42 AM by intheabyss.)
the marriage parable
Hi,

This is my first post.

I found a some scripture in the bible that was very confusing to me and I am wondering if there are any christians here that can shed light on this.

[Matthew 22:30 VS. Revelation 21:9, Ephesians 5:25-27]

Here in Matthew we have Sadducees approach Jesus and ask him about marriage on earth as in heaven. They ask Jesus, 'If a man with 7 brothers marries a woman and later dies so that the next brother can take care of his wife, whose wife will she in be heaven if all 7 brothers die trying to take care of her?'

Jesus replies that no one will be married in heaven nor will they be given into marriage.

Yet in Revelations it mentions that the Lamb (supposedly Jesus) will show up in heaven with his bride. This is supposed to signify the marriage of Christ and his church. Ephesians even confirms that this is likely the case.

But how can that be? It clearly states in Matthew that no one will be given into marriage. And why is Jesus (who is supposed to be the Lamb) standing with his bride in heaven? I thought no marriage was allowed.

This seems like jesus is contradicting himself by saying no marriage will be given in heaven (on the day of resurrection) when in fact it will be.
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29-11-2016, 01:45 AM
RE: the marriage parable
...

Christ in revelation is talking in a metaphor (such as when people refer to their pastor as "father", usually they are not implying that the old goat was going at it with their mater) whereas the Saduccees' question is about literal marriage.

I'll give you points for effort but this is not a contradiction that would make a Christian even blink. You want something with a bit more meat, like the fact that Jesus has two different lineages given in the gospels of Matthew and Mark (IIRC). That's the kinda thing that gets them in a tizzy. The real stinkers are the verses about stuff like "Happy is he who dashes out the kiddies' brains against a rock" in the old testament. Christians hate to be reminded of those.

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29-11-2016, 02:13 AM (This post was last modified: 29-11-2016 02:28 AM by intheabyss.)
RE: the marriage parable
(29-11-2016 01:45 AM)morondog Wrote:  Christ in revelation is talking in a metaphor (such as when people refer to their pastor as "father", usually they are not implying that the old goat was going at it with their mater) whereas the Saduccees' question is about literal marriage.


I would understand that there would be no marriage in heaven if Jesus answered the Saducees and left it at that. Yet there is a reference to marriage on the day of resurrection (in heaven - I'm assuming resurrection is heaven for bible believers). Even it sounds metaphorical it literally says in Revelations that the Lamb will be with his bride. Talking about the Lamb's bride is reference to marriage. Jesus said there will be no marriage. So why is Jesus with his bride?

Isn't a metaphor supposed to enhance the literal meaning anyways? That would mean marriage in heaven is supposed enhance marriage as on earth, am I right? Isn't that the metaphors job? to describe the same idea but with more power? I don't think a metaphor's job is to explain the opposite of what was meant.


(29-11-2016 01:45 AM)morondog Wrote:  I'll give you points for effort but this is not a contradiction that would make a Christian even blink. You want something with a bit more meat, like the fact that Jesus has two different lineages given in the gospels of Matthew and Mark (IIRC). That's the kinda thing that gets them in a tizzy. The real stinkers are the verses about stuff like "Happy is he who dashes out the kiddies' brains against a rock" in the old testament. Christians hate to be reminded of those.

Yes. I've seen this before. I've got to look it up again.

But what do you mean about the happy who dashes out the kats and brains on a rock?

I think you are referring to stoning people in the OT.
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29-11-2016, 02:46 AM
RE: the marriage parable
(29-11-2016 02:13 AM)intheabyss Wrote:  
(29-11-2016 01:45 AM)morondog Wrote:  I'll give you points for effort but this is not a contradiction that would make a Christian even blink. You want something with a bit more meat, like the fact that Jesus has two different lineages given in the gospels of Matthew and Mark (IIRC). That's the kinda thing that gets them in a tizzy. The real stinkers are the verses about stuff like "Happy is he who dashes out the kiddies' brains against a rock" in the old testament. Christians hate to be reminded of those.

Yes. I've seen this before. I've got to look it up again.

But what do you mean about the happy who dashes out the kats and brains on a rock?

I think you are referring to stoning people in the OT.

No, he's referring to a passage in the Psalms, in which the author fantasizes about getting revenge on the people who hurt the people of Jerusalem.

The "happy is he" follows this verse: "Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction, happy is the one who repays you according to what you have done to us. Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks." (Psalm 137:8-9), and is just basically a revenge-porn fantasy.

(Bold emphasis mine.)

Contrary to what most Christians think, most of the Psalms don't go back to the time of David. It's pretty clear that this refers to a desire to get revenge on the Babylonian Empire for their sacking of Jerusalem and taking the surviving Jews away into exile in Babylon.

Most Christians would instantly get this context and blow it off as nothing more than an expression of pain.

I'd focus more on where God literally orders the extermination of every man, woman, child, and animal in an area-- the most brutal genocide one can imagine-- by his people against their neighbors. But before you even make that argument, you should read up about what rabbinical scholars have to say about it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amalek#Ext...Amalekites

As to the marriage in heaven thing, keep in mind that the standard mode of communication for the Jewish holy texts was metaphor. They loved euphimism and metaphor, literally using that as a rhyming scheme in the Psalms and other places (as opposed to rhyming sounds, as we do). When you see a passage that may be metaphor, it's a pretty safe bet to assume that it is.

As MD already pointed out, the "bride" here is the whole church, not a literal person to whom Jesus would be married. (Nuns become "brides of Christ" in symbolic assumption of this role, but it's still not a legit marriage.) It's not only not a contradiction, it will make a Christian ignore everything else you say because you have showed them that you do not understand their Bible. So be careful with that.

As MD also pointed out, there are many, many, many other places where the Bible says horrifying things that are against every modern concept of morality. The "dashes against rocks" one simply isn't one of them.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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29-11-2016, 01:08 PM (This post was last modified: 29-11-2016 01:29 PM by intheabyss.)
RE: the marriage parable
(29-11-2016 02:46 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I'd focus more on where God literally orders the extermination of every man, woman, child, and animal in an area-- the most brutal genocide one can imagine-- by his people against their neighbors. But before you even make that argument, you should read up about what rabbinical scholars have to say about it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amalek#Ext...Amalekites


I understand that there would be cause for concern of a god who orders extermination of the people either because that is his nature or because people create god(s) to fulfill their political agenda.

I'm sure even devoted christians would be concerned if new revelation revealed they had to wipe out an entire nation (i.e look! jesus is coming and he did not come to bring peace but a sword! [Matthew 10:34]). Still as troubled as they might be, they would believe god has to be right and that he would sort out the mess afterwards in the afterlife (Perhaps not many are that fundamental but I know of a person it happened to who went to jail for his faith).

So one should also ask whether or not the whole bible was consistent with what it was saying. That would save a lot of christian people and my friend. So if the bible contradicts in anyway it is then holding errors and christians alike know that god is unerring.

So it would be of utmost importance to either prove the bible right or wrong.

(29-11-2016 02:46 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  As to the marriage in heaven thing, keep in mind that the standard mode of communication for the Jewish holy texts was metaphor. They loved euphimism and metaphor, literally using that as a rhyming scheme in the Psalms and other places (as opposed to rhyming sounds, as we do). When you see a passage that may be metaphor, it's a pretty safe bet to assume that it is.

As MD already pointed out, the "bride" here is the whole church, not a literal person to whom Jesus would be married. (Nuns become "brides of Christ" in symbolic assumption of this role, but it's still not a legit marriage.) It's not only not a contradiction, it will make a Christian ignore everything else you say because you have showed them that you do not understand their Bible. So be careful with that.


But the use of metaphor should represent the literal meaning, no?

When I say, 'the pie is like an open woman', it can literally be opened up like a pie or woman can be, no?

Why is the bible saying there will be a metaphorical marriage in heaven but not a literal one? It seems to still be claiming opposing views. A contradiction. The metaphor is supposed to enhance the literal meaning. That doesn't seem to be enhancing but actually diminishing the metaphor of marriage in heaven.
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29-11-2016, 02:05 PM (This post was last modified: 29-11-2016 02:14 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: the marriage parable
My read is that Jesus is saying that marriage is a social contract and in heaven no such social contract is required 'cause we're all gonna be nice to each other and nobody's gonna be a dick. Oh, it also means that there is no reverse cowgirl shit going on in heaven 'cause nobody's got any genitals. As for Revelations, mescaline is a powerful drug.

(29-11-2016 01:08 PM)intheabyss Wrote:  When I say, 'the pie is like an open woman', it can literally be opened up like a pie or woman can be, no?

How do you open a pie?

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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29-11-2016, 03:24 PM
RE: the marriage parable
G'day mate, and welcome. Smile

(29-11-2016 01:24 AM)intheabyss Wrote:  Hi,

This is my first post.

I found a some scripture in the bible that was very confusing to me and I am wondering if there are any christians here that can shed light on this.

[Matthew 22:30 VS. Revelation 21:9, Ephesians 5:25-27]

[snip]


This seems like jesus is contradicting himself by saying no marriage will be given in heaven (on the day of resurrection) when in fact it will be.

There's really no need to waste your time overthinking this sort of biblical bullshit. The entire Abrahamic bible is merely a fairy story, peopled by mythological beings, and relying on a belief in the paranormal or supernatural.

There's also no point in trying to analyse every part of its fantasies to the Nth degree, as you'll invariably end up running around in circles as one claim after another invalidates the others ad infinitum.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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29-11-2016, 05:24 PM
RE: the marriage parable
(29-11-2016 03:24 PM)SYZ Wrote:  There's really no need to waste your time overthinking this sort of biblical bullshit. The entire Abrahamic bible is merely a fairy story, peopled by mythological beings, and relying on a belief in the paranormal or supernatural.

There's also no point in trying to analyse every part of its fantasies to the Nth degree, as you'll invariably end up running around in circles as one claim after another invalidates the others ad infinitum.


Well if one point a christian makes invalidates itself for a good amount of times, it's safe to walk away knowing they are wrong, wouldn't you agree?

Then you don't need to spend time afterwards arguing points to the Nth degree.
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29-11-2016, 05:30 PM
RE: the marriage parable
(29-11-2016 02:05 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  My read is that Jesus is saying that marriage is a social contract and in heaven no such social contract is required 'cause we're all gonna be nice to each other and nobody's gonna be a dick. Oh, it also means that there is no reverse cowgirl shit going on in heaven 'cause nobody's got any genitals. As for Revelations, mescaline is a powerful drug.


I like reverse cowlgirls.



(29-11-2016 02:05 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  How do you open a pie?

I think that doesn't take much thought or effort to do.
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