the origin of the living cell
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09-06-2013, 07:17 AM
RE: the origin of the living cell
(08-06-2013 05:18 PM)JAH Wrote:  It is a miracle. Yes that is so. Human life started in some mud somewhere. Did some supreme thingy have anything to do with it, there is no evidence of that.

Then how did the living cell come into existence? Something or Someone created it. Which of the two possibilities is more scientific and reasonable?
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09-06-2013, 07:18 AM
RE: the origin of the living cell
I have a question for Dan. Modern science now knows that the bible is staggeringly and marvellously complex. Historians are only scratching the surface as regards their understanding of the complexity of when and who wrote the different parts.

What scientific explanation can Christians offer as to how this book came into existence and then became a HOLY book? Because there is a great difference between other ancient texts and gods actual words. What was the guiding force that caused your book to come into existence? Any structure, great or small, must have a solid foundation. Christians must provide scientifically proven evidence that this book came into existence with the divine intervention of a Creator. So what evidence exists that this has happened? If they cannot present evidence that a book came into existence with a designing Creator their beliefs are without foundation and are born dead, without any basis.
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09-06-2013, 07:21 AM
RE: the origin of the living cell
(09-06-2013 07:18 AM)saki Wrote:  I have a question for Dan. Modern science now knows that the bible is staggeringly and marvellously complex. Historians are only scratching the surface as regards their understanding of the complexity of when and who wrote the different parts.

What scientific explanation can Christians offer as to how this book came into existence and then became a HOLY book? Because there is a great difference between other ancient texts and gods actual words. What was the guiding force that caused your book to come into existence? Any structure, great or small, must have a solid foundation. Christians must provide scientifically proven evidence that this book came into existence with the divine intervention of a Creator. So what evidence exists that this has happened? If they cannot present evidence that a book came into existence with a designing Creator their beliefs are without foundation and are born dead, without any basis.

First of all you answer my question and then I will answer yours.
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09-06-2013, 07:33 AM
RE: the origin of the living cell
(09-06-2013 07:21 AM)Dan Steeves Wrote:  First of all you answer my question and then I will answer yours.

From reading others replies, it is we don't know exactly, but people are working on it. Much like we now have evidence that rainbows are made by you looking at raindrops with the sun behind you, not something 'hanging' it in the sky..
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09-06-2013, 07:34 AM
RE: the origin of the living cell
(09-06-2013 07:17 AM)Dan Steeves Wrote:  
(08-06-2013 05:18 PM)JAH Wrote:  It is a miracle. Yes that is so. Human life started in some mud somewhere. Did some supreme thingy have anything to do with it, there is no evidence of that.

Then how did the living cell come into existence? Something or Someone created it. Which of the two possibilities is more scientific and reasonable?

Scientific? Laughat My friend, methinks you misunderstand the meaning of the word.

Reasonable? Perhaps, if you could show one shred of good evidence for it.

"It's a most distressing affliction to have a sentimental heart and a skeptical mind.”
― نجيب محفوظ, Sugar Street
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09-06-2013, 07:40 AM
RE: the origin of the living cell
(08-06-2013 07:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(08-06-2013 04:20 PM)Dan Steeves Wrote:  Atheists must provide scientifically proven evidence that a cell could come into existence without the divine intervention of a Creator. So what evidence exists that this has happened?

No, we don't. Scientists are working on it.

Quote:If they cannot present evidence that the cell came into existence without a designing Creator their atheistic beliefs are without foundation and are born dead, without any basis.[/u]

We present effort, the ongoing work of discovery. Your absolutism and childish need for answers is typical of the religious mindset.

A rational, mature person understands that an honest answer is "We don't know, but we're working on it".

So if you don't know the origin of life and "we're still working on it" why are you an atheist?
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09-06-2013, 07:41 AM
RE: the origin of the living cell
(09-06-2013 07:21 AM)Dan Steeves Wrote:  First of all you answer my question and then I will answer yours.

Your question cannot be answered. Firstly because it assumes that atheists share some sort of "belief" which isn't the case.

Secondly, if it were not known, it would not be known. No "belief" required.

Thirdly, humans have replicated the origin of cells in labs. So your whole premise is faulty.

Fourthly, educate yourself: http://library.thinkquest.org/C004535/on...cells.html

And lastly, why would we have to prove anything? Beliefs require proofs. No beliefs, what's there to prove?

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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09-06-2013, 07:44 AM
RE: the origin of the living cell
Steeves,
Are you like 12 years old ?
So what you're saying is, that for you, god is *necessary* only because you have no better explanation, for one question ?
Did you even watch the video from Harvard ?
Which step in it do you disagree with, and why exactly ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist
Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things" (KJV)

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09-06-2013, 07:45 AM
RE: the origin of the living cell
Dan Steeves, oh what happened here. Saki asked a reasonable question. You responded with mine is bigger than yours. No, it is not.

The why of existence is currently unknowable, so what. The same question was posited to me outside the bar by a drunk some 6 months ago. The answer of "I don't know" is and will remain valid for some time. Why am I a unique human, well I know a lot of that is through genetics, I know none of the why my genetics created "me".

On the other hand we do know much about the formation of the bible and much of what we know shows that god was at least sloppy about how he produced it. We also know that humans tweaked with it a lot. Was every tweaking done with divine intent. That is a very serious question.

Why "we" exist remains currently unknowable. It does not present a reason for "gods", I use the plural intentionally because the bible god is not the only one.
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09-06-2013, 07:46 AM
RE: the origin of the living cell
(08-06-2013 08:02 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(08-06-2013 04:20 PM)Dan Steeves Wrote:  If they cannot present evidence that the cell came into existence without a designing Creator their atheistic beliefs are without foundation and are born dead, without any basis.[/u]

Atheists do not have beliefs. Atheist simply means a person with no belief in a god.

Oh yes atheists DO have a god. The god of blind, mindless, unthinking chance. Or put in another way: the god of good luck.
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