the origin of the living cell
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09-06-2013, 08:18 PM
RE: the origin of the living cell
(08-06-2013 04:20 PM)Dan Steeves Wrote:  I have a question for atheists. Modern science now knows that the living cell is staggeringly and marvellously complex together with the DNA and RNA genetic code that replicates the cell. Microbiologists are only scratching the surface as regards their understanding of the complexity of the cell.

What scientific explanation can atheists offer as to how the cell came into existence and then became a LIVING cell? Because there is a great difference between a dead cell and a living cell. What was the guiding force that caused the cell to come into existence? Any structure, great or small, must have a solid foundation. Atheists must provide scientifically proven evidence that a cell could come into existence without the divine intervention of a Creator. So what evidence exists that this has happened? If they cannot present evidence that the cell came into existence without a designing Creator their atheistic beliefs are without foundation and are born dead, without any basis.[/u]

http://cen.acs.org/articles/91/i23/Ancie...ought.html

Ancient rocks from Australia have long been known to contain chemical clues about early Earth. A new look at these 3.5 billion-year-old rocks now provides a possible explanation for how the element phosphorus became a crucial part of life’s biochemistry.

Today, in its +5 oxidation state as phosphate, phosphorus powers adenosine triphosphate to energize life processes and helps form the structural backbone of DNA and RNA. However, “the origins-of-life community has struggled with the problem of how phosphate first entered into life,” says Nicholas V. Hud of Georgia Tech, who was not involved with the new study. Most phosphate on Earth is inorganic. It is insoluble in water and too inert to easily incorporate into biomolecules.

The new work, from Matthew A. Pasek of the University of South Florida and colleagues, suggests that the planet’s phosphorus makeup was once very different. The group found phosphite, with phosphorus in its +3 oxidation state, in ancient rocks. Phosphite dissolves in water and is reactive enough to be a plausible phosphorus source for proto-biomolecules (Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 2013, DOI: 10.1073/pnas.1303904110). What’s more, other scientists have found traces of early life—the outlines of primitive cells—in rocks from this region of Australia.
The find provides geochemical evidence for Pasek’s 2008 proposal that meteorites delivered reactive phosphorus to Earth in the form of a mineral called schreibersite. When dissolved in water, schreibersite releases phosphite and other reactive phosphorus species.

To test the theory that phosphorus might have made its way from schreibersite into biomolecules, Pasek’s team took a commercial reagent that mimics schreibersite and combined it with glycerol, a three-carbon alcohol also common in meteorites. After heating the material to 65 °C in water, they obtained glycerol phosphate, a cell membrane building block.

That result is intriguing, says Matthew W. Powner of University College London, who studies primeval RNA synthesis. But the reaction is quite complex, he adds, which makes it hard to verify that phosphite is responsible for adding the phosphorus to glycerol.

Pasek agrees. He says the reaction only demonstrates that schreibersite allows phosphate transfer to happen. His team plans to study the reaction mechanism and examine its scope.

[Image: 1370607691803.jpg]

“I had these rocks for six years,” Pasek says, before he was able to adapt a mass spectrometry technique to analyze their phosphorus content.
Credit: Courtesy of Matthew Pasek

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09-06-2013, 08:19 PM
RE: the origin of the living cell
(09-06-2013 07:53 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Wow so I leave for 1 day and we get pleasejeebus 2.0 here who can't figure out how to click a link provided. You lack even a basic argument and are being intentionally ignorant on a subject you asked us about. In the words of our Dear MSBB Shoo fly!

Forget about the link. I want YOU to answer my question. Actually atheists are mentally lazy. They don't research but just swallow whole all the atheistic Dawkinistic propaganda. I get the impression they have other reasons for their atheism that has nothing to do with true science.
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09-06-2013, 08:31 PM
RE: the origin of the living cell
(09-06-2013 08:19 PM)Dan Steeves Wrote:  
(09-06-2013 07:53 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Wow so I leave for 1 day and we get pleasejeebus 2.0 here who can't figure out how to click a link provided. You lack even a basic argument and are being intentionally ignorant on a subject you asked us about. In the words of our Dear MSBB Shoo fly!

Forget about the link. I want YOU to answer my question. Actually atheists are mentally lazy. They don't research but just swallow whole all the atheistic Dawkinistic propaganda. I get the impression they have other reasons for their atheism that has nothing to do with true science.

Are you a theologian who can answer deep questions of Christian or Islamic or Buddhist doctrine? How would you answer such questions?

Some of us here are practicing scientists, engineers, technologists, physicians. Others study science for the joy of knowledge.
No one has deep knowledge in all areas; besides, that''s not how it works.
Science is collaborative; knowledge is shared, it is verified by others. And it is the questions that are important.

Your understanding of science is minimal, your knowledge of the world is abysmal.
You apparently have no real curiosity - you think you have answers. You don't.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-06-2013, 08:36 PM
RE: the origin of the living cell
(09-06-2013 08:19 PM)Dan Steeves Wrote:  
(09-06-2013 07:53 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Wow so I leave for 1 day and we get pleasejeebus 2.0 here who can't figure out how to click a link provided. You lack even a basic argument and are being intentionally ignorant on a subject you asked us about. In the words of our Dear MSBB Shoo fly!

Forget about the link. I want YOU to answer my question. Actually atheists are mentally lazy. They don't research but just swallow whole all the atheistic Dawkinistic propaganda. I get the impression they have other reasons for their atheism that has nothing to do with true science.

I'm not a scientist. I cannot answer your question off the top of my head. So what?

I do have plenty of other reasons for my atheism that have absolutely nothing to do with science.

But the science is cool. And it backs up my theory. Tongue

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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09-06-2013, 08:45 PM
RE: the origin of the living cell
(09-06-2013 08:19 PM)Dan Steeves Wrote:  
(09-06-2013 07:53 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Wow so I leave for 1 day and we get pleasejeebus 2.0 here who can't figure out how to click a link provided. You lack even a basic argument and are being intentionally ignorant on a subject you asked us about. In the words of our Dear MSBB Shoo fly!

Forget about the link. I want YOU to answer my question. Actually atheists are mentally lazy. They don't research but just swallow whole all the atheistic Dawkinistic propaganda. I get the impression they have other reasons for their atheism that has nothing to do with true science.

When my kids ask me how to spell something, I tell them to look it up.

It's not lazy.

It's how they learn.

I guess some need to be spoon-fed answers.

But I don't do "homework" for other people, no matter how insistent that I do it. You want answers, go find them for yourself like we all did. Bullying or being rude, hurling insults won't change that, nor telling me what you think I believe -- no matter how justified you feel you are in doing so. It's sad really you feel the need to behave like this to a group of strangers. I find it telling.

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God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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09-06-2013, 08:56 PM
RE: the origin of the living cell
(09-06-2013 08:19 PM)Dan Steeves Wrote:  
(09-06-2013 07:53 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Wow so I leave for 1 day and we get pleasejeebus 2.0 here who can't figure out how to click a link provided. You lack even a basic argument and are being intentionally ignorant on a subject you asked us about. In the words of our Dear MSBB Shoo fly!

Forget about the link. I want YOU to answer my question. Actually atheists are mentally lazy. They don't research but just swallow whole all the atheistic Dawkinistic propaganda. I get the impression they have other reasons for their atheism that has nothing to do with true science.

I lack a PHD in abiogenesis or astrophysics but I do appreciate the work done by those who have obtained such a degree. You asked for a scientific answer to your question and I provided one, you then asked me for peer reviewed experiments to confirm a fact I mentioned about bacteria being able to survive in space. I provided a link to an article about such an experiment. I choose to better myself through learning, about science and other things. I read biology books for fun and look into biblical scholarship as a layman enjoying the simple act of learning something new. You should try it sometime. It is much more interesting than assuming you have all the answers. I don't collect answers I collect questions and then try to find answers to them which in turn bring about new questions. I don't have all the knowledge in the universe but I do have enough to know that neither do you, the difference is I am honest about that fact.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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09-06-2013, 08:59 PM
RE: the origin of the living cell
(09-06-2013 08:19 PM)Dan Steeves Wrote:  I get the impression they have other reasons for their atheism that has nothing to do with true science.

Atheists have lots of different reasons for their disbelief.

Mine had nothing to do with science at all.

It had to do with the atrocities committed in the old testament because "god" told people to commit them.

It's like worshipping Hitler. Disgusting.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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09-06-2013, 09:02 PM
RE: the origin of the living cell
(09-06-2013 08:31 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(09-06-2013 08:19 PM)Dan Steeves Wrote:  Forget about the link. I want YOU to answer my question. Actually atheists are mentally lazy. They don't research but just swallow whole all the atheistic Dawkinistic propaganda. I get the impression they have other reasons for their atheism that has nothing to do with true science.

Are you a theologian who can answer deep questions of Christian or Islamic or Buddhist doctrine? How would you answer such questions?

Some of us here are practicing scientists, engineers, technologists, physicians. Others study science for the joy of knowledge.
No one has deep knowledge in all areas; besides, that''s not how it works.
Science is collaborative; knowledge is shared, it is verified by others. And it is the questions that are important.

Your understanding of science is minimal, your knowledge of the world is abysmal.
You apparently have no real curiosity - you think you have answers. You don't.

I'm still waiting for you to answer my first question on how the first living cell came into existence and then came alive. What caused it to exist? SOMETHING or SOMEONE? If you can't explain that then the whole theory of atheistic evolution crumbles like one of Dawkins english biscuits.
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09-06-2013, 09:15 PM
RE: the origin of the living cell
(09-06-2013 09:02 PM)Dan Steeves Wrote:  
(09-06-2013 08:31 PM)Chas Wrote:  Are you a theologian who can answer deep questions of Christian or Islamic or Buddhist doctrine? How would you answer such questions?

Some of us here are practicing scientists, engineers, technologists, physicians. Others study science for the joy of knowledge.
No one has deep knowledge in all areas; besides, that''s not how it works.
Science is collaborative; knowledge is shared, it is verified by others. And it is the questions that are important.

Your understanding of science is minimal, your knowledge of the world is abysmal.
You apparently have no real curiosity - you think you have answers. You don't.

I'm still waiting for you to answer my first question on how the first living cell came into existence and then came alive. What caused it to exist? SOMETHING or SOMEONE? If you can't explain that then the whole theory of atheistic evolution crumbles like one of Dawkins english biscuits.

No, it doesn't crumble. Evolution is the theory of change of living things, not the origin of life. Evolution is proven science.

There is good evidence for various possible mechanisms for life's origins. We weren't there, we didn't witness it. We are trying to reconstruct it. This is how science works, by the accumulation of data, formation of hypotheses, the testing of them, the construction of theories, the testing and subsequent acceptance or rejection of theory. We learn and we build.

If you require absolute answers, you will either have to accept lies or find a different universe. You appear to have done the former.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-06-2013, 09:16 PM
RE: the origin of the living cell
Good to be back after a five day hiatus. So this is our new PleaseJesus/ Heywood Jahblowme? Just read the thread, sounds like you guys have it under control Yes and since I have nothing original to add I'll just throw out some of my favorite quotes regarding the subject at hand.

The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie -- deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. John F. Kennedy

God is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance.
Neil deGrasse Tyson

The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance.
Socrates

Truth never triumphs — its opponents just die out. Science advances one funeral at a time. Max Planck

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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