the sanctity of life
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12-03-2014, 06:10 AM (This post was last modified: 12-03-2014 06:13 AM by donotwant.)
RE: the sanctity of life
Quote:Do you think that they would they remember that miserable life?
After they die? No.
Quote:Do you think that we take our experience with us?
After we die? No.
Quote:What are your thoughts on what makes us who we are and forms our decisions?
State of the universe and laws of physics and chance.
Quote:Do you think that our minds are subject to change?
They change constantly but some have almost no chance of change for the happiness and well being. Maybe in 100 years when the world will change those people will have good chance for good life.
Quote:Do you think that there is anything after death?
No.
Quote:If there is nothing after death then would it matter how you died?
It matters. There is a difference between starving to death and getting shot in the head with a tank.
And even bleeding to death might seem like an eternity because of how body and brain react to the process of dying.
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12-03-2014, 06:48 AM
RE: the sanctity of life
(12-03-2014 06:10 AM)donotwant Wrote:  
Quote:Do you think that they would they remember that miserable life?
After they die? No.
Quote:Do you think that we take our experience with us?
After we die? No.
Quote:What are your thoughts on what makes us who we are and forms our decisions?
State of the universe and laws of physics and chance.
Quote:Do you think that our minds are subject to change?
They change constantly but some have almost no chance of change for the happiness and well being. Maybe in 100 years when the world will change those people will have good chance for good life.
Quote:Do you think that there is anything after death?
No.
Quote:If there is nothing after death then would it matter how you died?
It matters. There is a difference between starving to death and getting shot in the head with a tank.
And even bleeding to death might seem like an eternity because of how body and brain react to the process of dying.

Carbon monoxide poisoning. Obviously I've never tried it myself but people reportedly die in their sleep from it all the time. It is so dangerous because of just how painless it is. It doesn't smell either which is a plus. That is pretty accessible. Anyway, I have obliged you this far with your hypothetical suicide mate but I am not getting into some morbid conversation about the validity of suicide techniques lol. Like I said I am not an expert on death. Plus it is sunny in the North East of England for once Cool and this is killing my buzz haha. I hope I have answered the question posed in the topic to the best of my ability and that my stance on suicide and the value of life as subjective to my own perspective is pretty clear by now. If not, my apologies. Good day to you! Smile
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12-03-2014, 06:50 AM (This post was last modified: 12-03-2014 06:56 AM by donotwant.)
RE: the sanctity of life
I understand your points but as I said reality doesn't always conform to our wishes and circumstances will take it's toll. Sad but true.
People get unlucky. Shit happens. People suffer. Be happy you're not one of them.
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12-03-2014, 06:59 AM
RE: the sanctity of life
(12-03-2014 06:50 AM)donotwant Wrote:  I understand your points but as I said reality doesn't always conform to our wishes and circumstances will take it's toll. Sad but true.
People get unlucky. Shit happens. People suffer. Be happy you're more lucky than they are.

Precisely. So circumstances are subject to change, as are our thoughts on suicide. Shit happens. People suffer. More shit happens. Some of those people stop suffering. More shit might happen. Some people who previous suffered start having a much better time. It is all subjective. People change. Not always for the better I concede, but in my opinion happiness is always worth a shot. Anyway I swear I am done now for a while, gotta get back to work haha. Take care man.
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12-03-2014, 07:08 AM (This post was last modified: 12-03-2014 07:13 AM by donotwant.)
RE: the sanctity of life
Hahaha. Oh you're funny!
You think I didn't try living for 15 years? I did and it got worse. It looks counterproductive to me.
I was born in a specific environment with a specific body(and brain). And when my life began affecting me the way it did I simply fall apart. Death is just a result of slow destruction of individual. Maybe in future society this won't happen but I won't survive till then.
I believe all the answers can be found in the study of the human brains. And they will be found eventually.
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12-03-2014, 07:30 AM
RE: the sanctity of life
I agree with you as far as the point that causal determinism shapes and molds us. In relation to our state of mind you have to also consider the possible affects yet to be caused by events and experiences that are yet to happen. You don't know what they are, therefore to claim to know already that they will further impact negatively on you is like receiving an unmarked envelope in the post and saying you already know it contains bad news. Or good news. Or pictures of tits. We don't know, but the point is that it COULD be good news. Or pictures of tits. PMA is something that is over used on sales training courses now and not only has it lost it's shine but it also sounds condescending. Especially to someone who can quite clearly think for themselves. I thought that it was a hypothetical situation that you put forward donotwant. I apologise if I misunderstood and regret being so flippant. 15 years is a long time and if it has been unpleasant for you then I am deeply sympathetic.
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12-03-2014, 07:59 AM
RE: the sanctity of life
To all those here who have stated that they would think it proper to try to "save someone from themselves" because the person might change their mind down the line - now we are getting at the core of the matter.

If this person does choose to exit, does it matter to them whether they would have changed their mind down the road?

To whom does it matter and why?

That would determine the value or "sanctity" of life, no?

Whose perception of value are you pursuing?

The dead person attaches no value to anything, they are dead.

You attach a value because......

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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12-03-2014, 08:11 AM (This post was last modified: 12-03-2014 08:15 AM by donotwant.)
RE: the sanctity of life
They attach value because they are afraid to die.
I often seen people on suicide forum who are angry at people who want to die. And most of those people wanted to die themselves at some point. And the more they wanted to die in the past the more angry they are at people who want to die now.
It's a projection of will to live.
They are afraid that if suicide will be legal people will die left and right(which I think is not the case in fact it's going to be the opposite).

People need to grow up and realize that life is not forever and not for everyone.

Also atheists often argue against suicide to not look bad in the eyes of theists. Which is kinda stupid.
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12-03-2014, 08:18 AM (This post was last modified: 12-03-2014 08:23 AM by donotwant.)
RE: the sanctity of life
Here is the example of life where suicide prevention is prolonging misery(which eventually ended in a suicide).
http://forum.forsuicidesurvivors.com/vie...=4&t=15406
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12-03-2014, 08:36 AM
RE: the sanctity of life
I guess you're both right. It is my belief that there is nothing after death that drives my desire to experience life. Probably that and my own experience with suicide. I am not scared of death, I just think that whilst we are alive we can make the best of it. That said, you both make valid points about the fact that it doesn't matter after death. Like I said, I agree that once a person is dead then they can't miss anything. Including what could have been. That Clint Eastwood quote from Unforgiven springs to mind. It's a hard thing killing a man, you take away everything he's got and everything he could have had. I am not arrogant enough to say that it is not a little selfish of me to want to assist those I care for in finding reasons to want to live should they ever find themselves in that position as my opinion is based entirely on my own experience. It just comes down to the subjective, individual relationship that we all have with being alive and how much value we each find in it. Selfish as it may be, happiness seems a worthy enough pursuit to me and I would always try to convince someone of that. Sure, they wouldn't be aware of any happiness or pain that they had felt once they were dead, but for each of us discussing it, why are we alive right now?
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