the sanctity of life
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12-03-2014, 08:40 AM (This post was last modified: 12-03-2014 08:47 AM by donotwant.)
RE: the sanctity of life
Read the topic at the link. As for why are we alive it's up for each individual to decide.
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12-03-2014, 09:01 AM
RE: the sanctity of life
(12-03-2014 08:36 AM)Seldon Wrote:  Sure, they wouldn't be aware of any happiness or pain that they had felt once they were dead, but for each of us discussing it, why are we alive right now?

Lots of answers to that, such as "coincidence", our parents has unprotected sex and what have you.

But I think the answer you are looking for is more specific: For me, who is not afraid of death, just of dying in a painful or miserable way, I am alive because I am mostly enjoying life and am still curious about tomorrow. Some day these things will go away due to illness or old age, and at that time I will choose to exit.

So, if you mean for this to address the question about the value of life - that is different from person to person and from age group/phase of life to age group/phase of life.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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12-03-2014, 09:51 AM
RE: the sanctity of life
I checked out the link and I agree that in the case of mattstevens1983's experience, trying to help just prolonged his pain and that of those around him. You can't treat every case the same. This is why I said there is no general, knee-jerk response to any individual who considers suicide. I keep saying that I think every person is different. Different experiences, different minds, different brains, different outlook. For some people, support works. For others it never would. If they kill themselves and never know the difference without ever having talked to anyone about it then you're right, it doesn't matter to them. In some cases where people are ill they will never get better. Not once have I contested that.

But, selfish as the decision to intervene may be, some suicides are still preventable. Not every case is as unfortunate as the one in that link. Some people can achieve happiness. I know, I know, what does happiness matter when we're dead? That was the reason that I asked why each of us here are alive right now. Here I am, sat having a discussion with people who I assume are alive. If what we do in life doesn't matter when we are dead, then there is a reason that we have all chosen to stay alive up until this point right? Dom says he is enjoying life and is curious about tomorrow. Me, exactly the same as Dom.

That is my point. For those cases where a person can be saved and allowed to enjoy life, however superfluous the experience may ultimately have been once we are eventually gone. Is it really that wicked for those of us lucky enough to be enjoying life and feeling curious about tomorrow to want others to have that too?

If I walk past somebody preparing to jump off a bridge should I just ignore them and go about my day?

I don't think I could. Not just for my own selfish reasons but for them, their family, their friends.

Does that make me a dick? lol
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12-03-2014, 09:53 AM
RE: the sanctity of life
You can try doing it for 1 month. After that they should be allowed to do what they want.
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12-03-2014, 10:04 AM
RE: the sanctity of life
They should be allowed to do what they want anyway. Nobody should be able to stop them. No time periods of a month, who has the right to enforce that upon someone anyway? All I am talking about is the freedom to try to help someone find value in their life. Even if it is just a chat. Despite my desire to help someone, they are still free to do as they wish with their life. I can only give someone my own, personal opinion after all. They don't have to agree.
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12-03-2014, 10:07 AM
RE: the sanctity of life
Good we have an agreement. As long as it doesn't involve threats of hell and alike.
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12-03-2014, 10:17 AM
RE: the sanctity of life
(12-03-2014 10:07 AM)donotwant Wrote:  Good we have an agreement. As long as it doesn't involve threats of hell and alike.

Ha! No way.
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12-03-2014, 10:37 AM
RE: the sanctity of life
I've always laughed at this, the sanctity of life.

I know you're not a scientist, Dom, but the science says otherwise.

Life is not sacred, life is ubiquitous.

Motherfuckers look up at the sky, fail to realize we are not at the shore of the ocean

We are in its depth.

It is not a matter of perception, and of course ego, it is a matter of density. And mathematics. Does matter "the god you worship" so much as "the god that is."

And what is our god, but simulation, the life that is loved, but lost. Do not mourn for them, who suicide, but for us, who shall live.

Who shall remember.

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12-03-2014, 10:38 AM
RE: the sanctity of life
(12-03-2014 10:37 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  I've always laughed at this, the sanctity of life.

I know you're not a scientist, Dom, but the science says otherwise.

Life is not sacred, life is ubiquitous.

Motherfuckers look up at the sky, fail to realize we are not at the shore of the ocean

We are in its depth.

It is not a matter of perception, and of course ego, it is a matter of density. And mathematics. Does matter "the god you worship" so much as "the god that is."

And what is our god, but simulation, the life that is loved, but lost. Do not mourn for them, who suicide, but for us, who shall live.

Who shall remember.

Did you suffer from malnourishment and ended up like Georg Cantor?
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12-03-2014, 10:31 PM
RE: the sanctity of life
I come to this conversation from a variety of perspectives. For several years, I was a psychiatric nurse working on a locked ward with the sickest of patients, many of them suicidal. A number of my patients attempted suicide on my watch or committed suicide during the course of my work at the hospital. I know several people - friends - who have attempted or successfully committed suicide, and have recently lost 2 cousins to suicide. But most importantly, I've been dealing with major depression since I was very young and have had suicidal feelings and thoughts since around the 9th grade (I'm 52 now).

I've spent most of my life trying to figure out what the purpose of this life is. If there's a point. Going back-and-forth between believing life, in its very pure and simple form, is precious and life is a fucking joke. I've had good moments, between the depressive ones, when I was able to help boost the spirits of others and help them through difficult times; I've had short periods of time when I've had reasons to be happy. But nothing has been sustaining.

Physically, I've had several unusual issues, some which are chronic, but none which are life-threatening or incredibly painful. Emotionally, though, my pain is excruciating. My depressive episodes are much closer together than they used to be, and I haven't had anything close to "happy" in well over 2 years. I think about suicide all the time. The only things that give me any pleasure in this life are my 2 cats.

No one should have to live with the kind of pain I endure every day. I've been on countless drugs, to many therapists. Nothing helps. The quality of my life is very poor. I'm existing. Just hanging around waiting to die. The only reason I'm still here is because I feel a degree of responsibility to my cats (whom I love dearly) and I worry about hurting my mom.

It should be my decision. I've given this life a chance. I've thought things through very carefully for a long time. The only reason most people want to stop others from killing themselves is because they are scared and feel out-of-control. It's not out of some hugely compassionate gesture. I've never met anyone who truly gave a shit. Oh, ok. Maybe one.

We shouldn't be deciding what's best for other people. I do think it is helpful to offer conversation and compassion if someone is not thinking clearly, because it is true that sometimes suicidal thoughts are impulsive and fleeting. But sometimes it's just the right decision.

It's funny. I know religion is bad for the masses, but it really can provide a kind of comfort and meaning when there isn't any there. I can trace my descent into a more severe depression back to my realization that I didn't believe in god. I think I felt like I lost something then, even though it was just a delusion.
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