the weight of the soul
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27-08-2012, 04:15 PM
RE: the weight of the soul
According to my information, weighing of "soul" was done relatively recently in East Germany under strict scientific conditions. (I haven't heard of Harvard or Russia)

There is actually a paper summing up all the research plus theoretic explanation of this phenomenon.
http://www.dapla.org/pdf/whs.pdf

Shortly said, this theory says that dark matter is not just a distant cosmic stuff, but something that participates on living processes. Our living processes (nerve system mainly) hold or even employ some amount of dark matter, which is released upon death when activity of nerves ceases. This amount has a certain non-zero mass which can be measured.

It's not strictly speaking a soul and so it gives little hope for immortality. Esotericists say this is the etheric body that may ocassionally cause some sightings of fresh grave phantoms. But even they say this etheric body decomposes in matter hours or days and there are other, subtler bodies that carry the consciousness after that into the afterlife until another reincarnation.
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27-08-2012, 04:18 PM
RE: the weight of the soul
(27-08-2012 03:23 PM)Kevin Wrote:  thank you, i was hoping to come back at him with information from multiple sources, not just 1. and possibly a study that calculated what actually happened in those bodies upon death. i like to be thorough, as to not leave room for doubt. but i guess the study was too unpredictable to figure out what caused the bodies to lose different amounts of weight presicely.

Kevin, there's an easy response (if you're still looking for one and my explanation "souls don't exist" won't mollify him)... ask him how a metaphysical object can have the mass required to create a physical weight.
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27-08-2012, 04:26 PM
RE: the weight of the soul
(27-08-2012 04:15 PM)Luminon Wrote:  According to my information, weighing of "soul" was done relatively recently in East Germany under strict scientific conditions. (I haven't heard of Harvard or Russia)

There is actually a paper summing up all the research plus theoretic explanation of this phenomenon.
http://www.dapla.org/pdf/whs.pdf

Shortly said, this theory says that dark matter is not just a distant cosmic stuff, but something that participates on living processes. Our living processes (nerve system mainly) hold or even employ some amount of dark matter, which is released upon death when activity of nerves ceases. This amount has a certain non-zero mass which can be measured.

It's not strictly speaking a soul and so it gives little hope for immortality. Esotericists say this is the etheric body that may ocassionally cause some sightings of fresh grave phantoms. But even they say this etheric body decomposes in matter hours or days and there are other, subtler bodies that carry the consciousness after that into the afterlife until another reincarnation.

The results of those measurements are not reliable. There are no reliable measurements that indicate anything missing after death.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-08-2012, 03:59 AM
RE: the weight of the soul
(27-08-2012 04:26 PM)Chas Wrote:  The results of those measurements are not reliable. There are no reliable measurements that indicate anything missing after death.
Let's get a little educative here. Why are these results not reliable? It says there the researchers (Noetic Science Institute, 1988) accounted for things like air in lungs or water evaporation.
IIRC, they managed to observe a consistent loss of weight at the moment of death. In each case of 200 dying patients the scales showed the same amount...

Do you think the experiment should be repeated? If so, what changes of the protocol would you propose?
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28-08-2012, 07:51 AM
RE: the weight of the soul
(28-08-2012 03:59 AM)Luminon Wrote:  
(27-08-2012 04:26 PM)Chas Wrote:  The results of those measurements are not reliable. There are no reliable measurements that indicate anything missing after death.
Let's get a little educative here. Why are these results not reliable? It says there the researchers (Noetic Science Institute, 1988) accounted for things like air in lungs or water evaporation.
IIRC, they managed to observe a consistent loss of weight at the moment of death. In each case of 200 dying patients the scales showed the same amount...

Do you think the experiment should be repeated? If so, what changes of the protocol would you propose?

MacDougall's sample size was small and his results were inconsistent. I have no proposed protocol as it is not the protocol I am commenting on.

However, it would be interesting for the experiment to be repeated. Why has no one done so in more than a century?
I suggest that no one has done so because it is not thought to be a meaningful experiment.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-08-2012, 02:25 PM
RE: the weight of the soul
(28-08-2012 07:51 AM)Chas Wrote:  MacDougall's sample size was small and his results were inconsistent. I have no proposed protocol as it is not the protocol I am commenting on.

However, it would be interesting for the experiment to be repeated. Why has no one done so in more than a century?
I suggest that no one has done so because it is not thought to be a meaningful experiment.
Certainly, to say MacDougall's experiment was very unreliable is an understatement. All in all, 7 patients and not all of them got properly weighed. (although even then things like moisture loss were accounted for) But this the one from 1907, right?

I actually meant the 1988 experiment in East Germany, done by Dr. Becker Mertens of Dresden, who summarized it as a letter that got published in German journal Horizon.

Again, both experiments are described and summarized here, including the explanation for this phenomenon. The weight loss is similar to an estimated amount of dark matter that the body's volume would contain. But it's actually somewhat greater, because it is not a free dark matter in our surroundings, but a highly concentrated and organized one, a symbiotic part of our organism. Large part of the etheric double, as esotericists call it.

A potential existence of this etheric double would be a great help in medicine, I believe this is a template that governs the developmental growth and shaping of tissues. Also, knowledge of the etheric double would allow an unprecedented ability to link psychosomatic causes with seemingly arbitrary diseases or to predict and prevent diseases sooner than they manifest in biologic form.
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