theist to agnostic to atheist
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09-01-2014, 09:47 AM
RE: theist to agnostic to atheist
Agnosticism is a description of knowledge (or as Tarty said "an epistemological position"). That is to say: "I don't know if there is a God"

Atheism is a description of belief. That is to say. "I don't believe there is a God"

People put both in the same spectrum sometimes even thought I don't think they should.

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09-01-2014, 09:58 AM
RE: theist to agnostic to atheist
(09-01-2014 09:47 AM)djkamilo Wrote:  Atheism is a description of belief. That is to say. "I don't believe there is a God"

People put both in the same spectrum sometimes even thought I don't think they should.
Atheism isn't a description of belief. Simply look at it this way:

Theism: Belief in the existence of god(s).
Weak Atheism: Absence of this belief.
Strong Atheism: Disbelief in the existence of god(s).

Atheism literally means "not theism, without theism". It doesn't mean "belief that theism is wrong". All atheists are "not theists, without theism". A subset of atheists are strong atheists who in addition also believe god(s) don't exist.
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09-01-2014, 12:28 PM
RE: theist to agnostic to atheist
(09-01-2014 09:58 AM)Artie Wrote:  
(09-01-2014 09:47 AM)djkamilo Wrote:  Atheism is a description of belief. That is to say. "I don't believe there is a God"

People put both in the same spectrum sometimes even thought I don't think they should.
Atheism isn't a description of belief. Simply look at it this way:

Theism: Belief in the existence of god(s).
Weak Atheism: Absence of this belief.
Strong Atheism: Disbelief in the existence of god(s).

Atheism literally means "not theism, without theism". It doesn't mean "belief that theism is wrong". All atheists are "not theists, without theism". A subset of atheists are strong atheists who in addition also believe god(s) don't exist.

Going to have to disagree with you there. I've always understood Weak Atheism to be equivalent to agnostic atheist.

And yes, atheism does cover the belief aspect, specifically lack of belief.

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09-01-2014, 12:39 PM (This post was last modified: 09-01-2014 12:51 PM by djkamilo.)
RE: theist to agnostic to atheist
Where do we get the notions of weak atheism and strong atheism? Who gets to draw the line?

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09-01-2014, 12:45 PM
RE: theist to agnostic to atheist
Oh god, don't let brownshirt see this thread. Weeping

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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09-01-2014, 12:47 PM
RE: theist to agnostic to atheist
(08-01-2014 07:37 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Every person on the planet is agnostic, because no one could ever know for sure. So the question should be, why theist or atheist, and the interpretation of evidence is the answer. Rational interpretation leads to atheism, irrational leads to theism.

Not really convinced by your opening sentence. Agnosticism is a position that's settled on the existence of a god. So you're implying that everyone believes gods exists?

8000 years before Jesus, the Egyptian god Horus said, "I am the way, the truth, the life."
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09-01-2014, 12:51 PM
RE: theist to agnostic to atheist
(09-01-2014 12:47 PM)BlackMason Wrote:  
(08-01-2014 07:37 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Every person on the planet is agnostic, because no one could ever know for sure. So the question should be, why theist or atheist, and the interpretation of evidence is the answer. Rational interpretation leads to atheism, irrational leads to theism.

Not really convinced by your opening sentence. Agnosticism is a position that's settled on the existence of a god. So you're implying that everyone believes gods exists?

No, he's saying that it's impossible to be a 1 or a 7 on the Dawkins' Scale. In order to be one of those, you would have to be omniscient. You can get really close to a 1 or 7, though.

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09-01-2014, 12:54 PM
RE: theist to agnostic to atheist
(09-01-2014 12:28 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  
(09-01-2014 09:58 AM)Artie Wrote:  Atheism isn't a description of belief. Simply look at it this way:

Theism: Belief in the existence of god(s).
Weak Atheism: Absence of this belief.
Strong Atheism: Disbelief in the existence of god(s).

Atheism literally means "not theism, without theism". It doesn't mean "belief that theism is wrong". All atheists are "not theists, without theism". A subset of atheists are strong atheists who in addition also believe god(s) don't exist.
Going to have to disagree with you there. I've always understood Weak Atheism to be equivalent to agnostic atheist.
You are confusing two different definitions. Atheism is about belief, agnosticism is about knowledge.

1. A weak atheist is a person who has an absence of belief in deities.
2. An agnostic atheist is a person who claims not to know whether god exists or not, but doesn't believe that he does.

Please notice that in point one there is no mention of knowledge only belief while in point two both knowledge and belief are mentioned because agnosticism is about knowledge and atheism is about belief.
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09-01-2014, 12:58 PM (This post was last modified: 09-01-2014 01:04 PM by Adrianime.)
RE: theist to agnostic to atheist
(08-01-2014 07:18 PM)sporehux Wrote:  Theists to agnostic is a given, but why (those that have) did you move from an Agnostic to an Atheist position.

Personally I felt dishonest claiming agnosticism when evidence for man made deitys is overwhelming.
Even then I claimed agnosticism for years to avoid conflict with friends and family.
I've always considered myself a "gnostic atheist" as "there is no god" has been "knowledge" (as much as as anything else I "know") to me my entire life.

(08-01-2014 07:37 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Every person on the planet is agnostic, because no one could ever know for sure. So the question should be, why theist or atheist, and the interpretation of evidence is the answer. Rational interpretation leads to atheism, irrational leads to theism.
See this is my problem with agnosticism. It can always apply because knowledge is always imperfect and nobody is omniscient.

However, if you look at it from a different perspective, or from the first person perspective, and define knowledge as something that is firmly understood to be true by an individual, then your statement no longer works.
This is how I look at "knowledge" because I feel the word only has significance when applied to how an individual views their own understanding of a subject. Gnostic theists (from their perspective) have "knowledge" of their god. To them, it is knowledge. Even if I think their knowledge is incorrect, that doesn't change how they feel about it.

I should note that I'm not implying that agnostic atheism or agnostic theism don't exist. I can definitely understand how you can "not know for sure" on the subject of god. I just personally feel it is something I know as much as I know anything else. So I'm disagreeing that everybody is an agnostic. I think knowledge is a subjective stance, not an objective one.

But I know many disagree with this view.

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09-01-2014, 01:13 PM
RE: theist to agnostic to atheist
I am both atheist and agnostic.

I have no knowledge of the existence of god(s). That makes me agnostic.

I have no belief in the existence of god(s). That makes me atheistic.
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