theist to agnostic to atheist
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09-01-2014, 01:19 PM
RE: theist to agnostic to atheist
(09-01-2014 12:54 PM)Artie Wrote:  
(09-01-2014 12:28 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  Going to have to disagree with you there. I've always understood Weak Atheism to be equivalent to agnostic atheist.
You are confusing two different definitions. Atheism is about belief, agnosticism is about knowledge.

1. A weak atheist is a person who has an absence of belief in deities.
2. An agnostic atheist is a person who claims not to know whether god exists or not, but doesn't believe that he does.

Please notice that in point one there is no mention of knowledge only belief while in point two both knowledge and belief are mentioned because agnosticism is about knowledge and atheism is about belief.
I understand the difference between knowledge and belief, I make that distinction myself.

You just sounded like in the previous post that you were equating weak atheist to the typically proclaimed views of people who claim to be just agnostic. Now you are giving definitions I can stand behind.

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09-01-2014, 01:34 PM
RE: theist to agnostic to atheist
(09-01-2014 09:30 AM)Artie Wrote:  
(09-01-2014 07:55 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Theism is binary. You either believe in one or more gods, or you don't. If you don't, you're atheist. This is a stance of belief.
No, actually it isn't. You have three possibilities:

1. Theist (belief in the existence of gods)
2. Weak atheist (absence of belief and absence of disbelief, simply having no beliefs regarding the subject, neutral, undecided)
3. Strong atheist (absence of belief and presence of disbelief)

Those last two both fall under the blanket label atheist. I discussed the further divisions in the rest of my post (that you didn't quote):

(09-01-2014 07:55 AM)The rest of my post Wrote:  Gnosticism/agnosticism is a stance of knowledge. You either feel your beliefs are knowable/provable, or you don't.

So, if you don't believe in any gods, but you don't feel that you can be truly certain about your belief, you're an agnostic atheist. If you feel certain that there are no gods out there, you are a gnostic atheist. Technically, agnostic theism is possible (I would have considered myself one for the last year or so that I still believed in God), but when most people say "agnostic", they mean "agnostic atheist".
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09-01-2014, 02:40 PM
RE: theist to agnostic to atheist
To RobbyPants:

The rest of your post discusses gnosticism/agnosticism which concerns a stance on knowledge. I was only commenting on your first part. You said and I quote: "Theism is binary. You either believe in one or more gods, or you don't. If you don't, you're atheist. This is a stance of belief." My point was that theism isn't binary and a weak atheist doesn't take a stance of belief.
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09-01-2014, 06:34 PM
RE: theist to agnostic to atheist
(09-01-2014 02:40 PM)Artie Wrote:  To RobbyPants:

The rest of your post discusses gnosticism/agnosticism which concerns a stance on knowledge. I was only commenting on your first part. You said and I quote: "Theism is binary. You either believe in one or more gods, or you don't. If you don't, you're atheist. This is a stance of belief." My point was that theism isn't binary and a weak atheist doesn't take a stance of belief.

It is binary. You're taking a 2x2 decision matrix and trying to map it on a single axis, and then you're consolidating the four positions into three (combining gnostic and agnostic theists into "theists").

Note how your "weak atheist" maps to agnostic atheist and "strong atheist" maps to gnostic atheist. The theism part is binary. You're either a theist or an atheist. Never both. Never neither. You've even posted as much; you're just splitting atheist into two more positions while not doing so with theism. It's set theory. There are two sets: theism and atheism. The fact that you are further splitting atheism into two more subsets is beside the point. The theism-atheism part is still binary.
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09-01-2014, 08:53 PM
RE: theist to agnostic to atheist
I don't know why I moved from agnostic to atheist. I just woke up one day and realized it. I don't recall any conscious pondering that sparked a sudden transition.

Perhaps this is simply a normal stage in human psychological evolution. Just like why our primitive minds think up the theist nonsense in the first place.

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09-01-2014, 09:20 PM
RE: theist to agnostic to atheist
No one can have knowledge of a god, how can they? Therefore it's unknowable, hence agnostic.

That's why they say they have faith. If you say you know god, then you're delusional, and personal revelation is not knowledge, and certainly isn't proof.

And why do people keep saying they "went from agnostic to atheistic?" My boy Robby has laid this out for you, they aren't stages in a 12-step program. It's like saying I went from studying gravity to being a high-jumper.

Check out my atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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Atheism promotes critical thinking; theism promotes hypocritical thinking. -- Me
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09-01-2014, 09:47 PM
RE: theist to agnostic to atheist
BTW, I don't subscribe to the Richard Dawkins "atheist scale". I thought it was idiotic from the start. You either have belief in the existence of god(s), or you don't. It doesn't get any more complicated. I never did like that "scale". It's been a few years since he came up with that nonsense. I wonder if he's seen the stupidity of it, since then. I'll have to do some checking....
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09-01-2014, 11:02 PM
RE: theist to agnostic to atheist
I think the Dawkins scale makes sense if you think of it as how much probability you give to being wrong.

Each end is 100% sure.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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10-01-2014, 01:11 AM (This post was last modified: 10-01-2014 03:58 AM by Revenant77x.)
RE: theist to agnostic to atheist
(09-01-2014 12:54 PM)Artie Wrote:  1. A weak atheist is a person who has an absence of belief in deities.
2. An agnostic atheist is a person who claims not to know whether god exists or not, but doesn't believe that he does.

No. Weak form atheism is the same as agnostic atheism. Strong atheism is also known as gnostic atheism.

Firstly, atheism is the rejection of theistic claims. This is based on the evidenced claimed by theists. Atheism assumes the null hypothesis and the burden of proof is on the theist because they are making a claim. Weak atheism fits into this.

Strong/gnostic atheism is the CLAIM that gods do not exist. Just like theism, strong atheism is saddled with a burden of proof.

So strong atheists claim to know (knowledge) and weak atheists don't.

8000 years before Jesus, the Egyptian god Horus said, "I am the way, the truth, the life."
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10-01-2014, 02:10 AM
RE: theist to agnostic to atheist
Someone says there once was a can in someones cupboard years ago with no label.
I was told there were beans in it, or maybe chilli, interpretation issues. and no one ever opened it.

You could be agnostic about there being beans in it or chilli, or whether there really was a can in the first place.

Seems far more logical to reject the knowledge (Atheist) of the can if there is no evidence.

There is a limit to open mindedness, you don't want too much shit to fall in.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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