theist to agnostic to atheist
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
10-01-2014, 03:34 AM
RE: theist to agnostic to atheist
(10-01-2014 02:10 AM)sporehux Wrote:  There is a limit to open mindedness, you don't want too much shit to fall in.

Roger that!

Btw can anyone see my post on page 3? I can't. When I re-type it says you've already sent this.

8000 years before Jesus, the Egyptian god Horus said, "I am the way, the truth, the life."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-01-2014, 04:00 AM
RE: theist to agnostic to atheist
(10-01-2014 03:34 AM)BlackMason Wrote:  Btw can anyone see my post on page 3? I can't. When I re-type it says you've already sent this.

Nope. Nothing but your signature.
The post looks very "deep" or you farted.
Can't tell.

"If you're going my way, I'll go with you."- Jim Croce
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-01-2014, 04:00 AM
RE: theist to agnostic to atheist
(10-01-2014 03:34 AM)BlackMason Wrote:  
(10-01-2014 02:10 AM)sporehux Wrote:  There is a limit to open mindedness, you don't want too much shit to fall in.

Roger that!

Btw can anyone see my post on page 3? I can't. When I re-type it says you've already sent this.

Your Quote tags were messed up you were missing an [ /quote] so it blanked the whole message. I fixed it for you.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-01-2014, 04:45 PM
RE: theist to agnostic to atheist
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-01-2014, 04:55 PM (This post was last modified: 10-01-2014 05:13 PM by Artie.)
RE: theist to agnostic to atheist
RobbyPants said:
Quote:It is binary. You're taking a 2x2 decision matrix and trying to map it on a single axis, and then you're consolidating the four positions into three (combining gnostic and agnostic theists into "theists").
I am only talking about theism/atheism not gnosticism/agnosticism. Please keep them separate. They are two different subjects. One is about belief, the other about knowledge.
Quote:Note how your "weak atheist" maps to agnostic atheist and "strong atheist" maps to gnostic atheist.
No it doesn't at all. A person can say he is a weak or a strong atheist without mentioning anything about being a gnostic/agnostic in addition to being an atheist.
Quote:The theism part is binary. You're either a theist or an atheist. Never both. Never neither. You've even posted as much; you're just splitting atheist into two more positions while not doing so with theism.
Of course. Theism is a belief never an absence of a belief. Atheism is either a lack of any belief (weak atheism) or the belief that theism is wrong (strong atheism).
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-01-2014, 05:26 PM
RE: theist to agnostic to atheist
(09-01-2014 09:47 PM)TheBear Wrote:  BTW, I don't subscribe to the Richard Dawkins "atheist scale". I thought it was idiotic from the start. You either have belief in the existence of god(s), or you don't. It doesn't get any more complicated. I never did like that "scale". It's been a few years since he came up with that nonsense. I wonder if he's seen the stupidity of it, since then. I'll have to do some checking....
When you say "You either have belief in the existence of god(s), or you don't" do you mean

a) "You either have belief in the existence of god(s), or you do not have belief in the existence of god(s)" as in weak atheist or
b) "You either have belief in the existence of god(s), or believe god(s) don't exist" as in strong atheist?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-01-2014, 05:44 PM
RE: theist to agnostic to atheist
Artie Wrote:1. A weak atheist is a person who has an absence of belief in deities.
2. An agnostic atheist is a person who claims not to know whether god exists or not, but doesn't believe that he does.
BlackMason Wrote:No. Weak form atheism is the same as agnostic atheism. Strong atheism is also known as gnostic atheism.
Of course not. If a person tells you he's a weak atheist he says nothing about any knowledge he might have or not have, he only says that he is not a theist and does not have a belief in god(s). If a person tells you he's a strong atheist he only tells you he believes god(s) don't exist he tells you nothing about why or if knowledge or lack of knowledge has anything to do with his disbelief.

I am still trying to figure out how to respond without leaving a blank post so please bear with me.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-01-2014, 06:07 PM
RE: theist to agnostic to atheist
Technically weak/strong atheism does not have to map to agnostic/gnostic atheism. But it totally depends on how you define weak and strong atheism.

if weak atheism (aka implicit atheism) = "lacking belief in a god" then this is a position on belief, and does not mention knowledge. Although I'd say you can usually infer that weak atheism implies agnostic atheism.

If strong atheism (aka explicit atheism) = "believing there is no god" then again this is a position on belief, and does not mention knowledge.
You can believe there is no god, but be uncertain, thus being an agnostic "strong atheist."
Or you can believe there is no god, and feel you know this, thus being a gnostic "strong atheist."

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Adrianime's post
10-01-2014, 06:22 PM
RE: theist to agnostic to atheist
(10-01-2014 05:26 PM)Artie Wrote:  
(09-01-2014 09:47 PM)TheBear Wrote:  BTW, I don't subscribe to the Richard Dawkins "atheist scale". I thought it was idiotic from the start. You either have belief in the existence of god(s), or you don't. It doesn't get any more complicated. I never did like that "scale". It's been a few years since he came up with that nonsense. I wonder if he's seen the stupidity of it, since then. I'll have to do some checking....
When you say "You either have belief in the existence of god(s), or you don't" do you mean

a) "You either have belief in the existence of god(s), or you do not have belief in the existence of god(s)" as in weak atheist or
b) "You either have belief in the existence of god(s), or believe god(s) don't exist" as in strong atheist?

I call bullshit. He's conflating agnostic with atheist. It's faulty logic from the get-go. At best, he's making it way more complicated than needs be.


(oh, look everyone! an atheist who isn't in lock step with anyone, including Dawkins. Tongue )
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-01-2014, 06:24 PM
RE: theist to agnostic to atheist
(10-01-2014 04:55 PM)Artie Wrote:  RobbyPants said:
Quote:It is binary. You're taking a 2x2 decision matrix and trying to map it on a single axis, and then you're consolidating the four positions into three (combining gnostic and agnostic theists into "theists").
I am only talking about theism/atheism not gnosticism/agnosticism. Please keep them separate. They are two different subjects. One is about belief, the other about knowledge.

Exactly! That's because they are the only two positions on that axis. If you take gnosticism/agnosticism out of the equation, you're left with theism and atheism; binary!


(10-01-2014 04:55 PM)Artie Wrote:  
Quote:The theism part is binary. You're either a theist or an atheist. Never both. Never neither. You've even posted as much; you're just splitting atheist into two more positions while not doing so with theism.
Of course. Theism is a belief never an absence of a belief. Atheism is either a lack of any belief (weak atheism) or the belief that theism is wrong (strong atheism).

Yes, and you are arbitrarily applying the gnosticism/agnosticism split to atheism and not theism here, which is why you're claiming them as two positions.

Now, they are two positions: both of which are a subset of atheism. You even implicitly admit that in your labeling (weak atheism and strong atheism). How you don't realize that weak atheism and strong atheism are both atheism is beyond me.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: