theists' experiences
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07-11-2014, 07:06 AM
RE: theists' experiences
I heard once that people from Texas like to brag with the size of their state by saying "You can drive for 3 days and still be in Texas"

The apropriate answere to that would in my opinion be: "Yeah! I used to have a piece of shit car like that once."

Same here. When i hear shit like that I would probably just reply "Man, you should try the meth they sell in Poland!"

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07-11-2014, 07:30 AM
RE: theists' experiences
It's a meaningless comment to me, right up there with dreams, premonitions, spooky feelings, vibes, alien abductions.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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07-11-2014, 07:44 AM
RE: theists' experiences
(07-11-2014 07:06 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  I heard once that people from Texas like to brag with the size of their state by saying "You can drive for 3 days and still be in Texas"

The apropriate answere to that would in my opinion be: "Yeah! I used to have a piece of shit car like that once."

Same here. When i hear shit like that I would probably just reply "Man, you should try the meth they sell in Poland!"
Just say "Alaska" and Texans get red in the face.
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07-11-2014, 08:24 AM
RE: theists' experiences
I think people mislabel their experiences as religious when they really mean to say "unexplained"

I've had experiences that I can't explain.
More than likely it's just my brain doing something odd. Its not a perfect machine. Errors happen all the time and all it takes is for you to be in the right place at the right time and BAM, that little twitch you had in your foot caused you to ease up on the gas pedal as a child darted in front of your car.

Had you been moving faster, you would have hit that child.

Right place, right time and suddenly that twitch you have 10 times a day becomes a religious experience in some christian's eyes.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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07-11-2014, 08:55 AM
RE: theists' experiences
(06-11-2014 10:33 PM)smileXsmileXsmile Wrote:  Someone says "I've had religious experiences". How do you even deal with that? I believe they think they have but I don't think they actually have. Even deists say these things.

My wife does this. In general, it's not something I really talk to her about. She has admitted frustration that she knows what she knows, but she has no way to articulate that to me.

As far as actually trying to counter the point: people's perceptions of things are often flawed. There's a lot of ways to approach that, but fundamentally, they're making a claim about something that is 100% unobservable and non-verifiable. Also, the more we learn about brain chemistry and neuroscience, the more and more we learn that "religious experiences" can be chemically induced or are in other ways unreliable.

If the person making the claim believes in some type of mutually exclusive religion (say Christianity, but not Deism), point out the similar claims of people of other religions. Now, there are hand-wavy counters ("They were experiencing the Christian god, but rejected him"), but you can throw them right back at them ("You were experiencing Allah, but rejected him").

Anyway, it can be summed up in two points:
  1. Just because they felt something doesn't make it real.
  2. Their experiences are in no way more compelling than the experiences of people who follow the "wrong" god.
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07-11-2014, 11:40 AM
RE: theists' experiences
You can ask how they know the difference between just imagining something and a religious experience. Everyone has "imagined something" - a sound, a person standing in the dark when it's just a bush. How do they know it was not just their imagination?
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07-11-2014, 11:58 AM
RE: theists' experiences
I deal with this almost daily.

I've found that no matter what, the more ignorant (or uneducated) the person is, the more difficult is to refute the so called "spiritual experiences" becomes because they simply don't understand the most basic terminology or the meaning of words.

In this case it's better to change the conversation theme and talk of something else because it might be very frustrating for both parties.

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07-11-2014, 12:04 PM
RE: theists' experiences
Consider the fact that people have delusions. There is a condition called "delusional parasitosis" where a person has a strong belief that he/she is infested with parasites, while in reality no such parasites are present. It can be something crawling under the skin or threads/worms going in and out.

Since this kind of delusion is known to occur, the occurrence of the delusion of a simple religious experience would seem to be a cake walk. Drinking Beverage

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07-11-2014, 01:24 PM
RE: theists' experiences
(07-11-2014 07:06 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  I heard once that people from Texas like to brag with the size of their state by saying "You can drive for 3 days and still be in Texas"

The apropriate answere to that would in my opinion be: "Yeah! I used to have a piece of shit car like that once."

Same here. When i hear shit like that I would probably just reply "Man, you should try the meth they sell in Poland!"
Hell I have been driving around for the past week and never left town.
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15-11-2014, 12:30 PM
RE: theists' experiences
(06-11-2014 10:40 PM)Plan 9 from OS Wrote:  Ockham's Razor

very nice

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

"If you cannot explain it simply, you don't understand it enough" -Albert Einstein
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