thought to ponder
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22-12-2016, 01:26 PM
RE: thought to ponder
If you believe that Star Wars is a documentary of a real series of events, they'll lock you up in an institution and medicate you.

If people believe that some nefarious invisible man, created the universe and everything in it, and he is really, really concerned with where any random person on any random planet in the universe, sticks his dick on Saturday night ---- they allow these people to build schools to teach this wild bullshit - and give them tax exempt status....................

Tell me, something's not wrong with THIS picture.....

.....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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22-12-2016, 01:27 PM
RE: thought to ponder
Something for Jenny to ponder :
Do you think you actually have to prove that Harry Potter is mythical or that pink sparkly unicorns don't exist before you dismiss these notions ?

You have your answer.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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22-12-2016, 02:42 PM
RE: thought to ponder
(22-12-2016 09:07 AM)jennylindstrom99@gmail.com Wrote:  I would like to present a question without representing any side.

Is the definition of a belief an individual opinion that everyone has the right to make for themselves?

Then why are Christians ask to prove their choice? Shouldn't atheists be required the equal request to show evidence that proves God or any God does NOT exist? Or prove that there is no life after death?

If we say there is no God are we making a claim as if we are qualified to make that claim? but a fair argument would ask: what qualifies Christians to claim there is a God? Regardless of the side you're on, what does qualify us as individuals to claim truth. And does our opinion what we belief to be the meaning of life make our belief truth? Does the fact that we believe in what we believe make it true or does self proclamation allow us the belief that our opinion is correct?

Why are those who believe that God is real and people who reject Christ can not enter heaven considered intolerable because they practice what they believe?

Are they expected to change their belief and be tolerant to others who do not agree? Wouldn't the person accusing them of being intolerant of other beliefs be claiming their belief to be truth by intolerating the beliefs they decided is incorrect?

Atheists Christians and all religions agree on a truth that our lives have followed regardless of belief. Every language includes the words bad and good right are wrong.

Where and why were these words created in every language understood as truth included in the foundation of all communication. Christianity is the only religion that claims moral truth. All other religion teaches truth because in order to change truth as a foundation, it takes learning doctric to leave the birthplace of truth

Just in case you're not another tiresome flyby we tend to get and actually care about discussion....

If I said I could cure a disease, wouidn't the first thing anyone would think of be "prove it?" Wouldn't you ask for some sort of evidence to support my assertion? What would your standard for evidence be?

What if I put up a website that had several testimonials that my method worked?

What if I included a "patent pending" blurb about that? Would you be more inclined to believe it then?

How about if I cleverly put up something claiming that a well known celebrity had used my method and claimed it to be true?

What sort of critical thought would you apply?


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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22-12-2016, 02:47 PM
thought to ponder
(22-12-2016 12:22 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Another Jenny Gasp There can be only one.

But you are the only one that is as sweet as honey.
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22-12-2016, 02:50 PM
RE: thought to ponder
(22-12-2016 02:47 PM)KUSA Wrote:  
(22-12-2016 12:22 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Another Jenny Gasp There can be only one.

But you are the only one that is as sweet as honey.

Aw Blush
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22-12-2016, 05:15 PM
RE: thought to ponder
I think miss Lindstrom deserves the benefit of the doubt. Her arguments may sound "well-worn" to most of you, but that doesn't make them any less sincere.
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22-12-2016, 05:45 PM
RE: thought to ponder
(22-12-2016 01:19 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(22-12-2016 09:07 AM)jennylindstrom99@gmail.com Wrote:  I would like to present a question without representing any side.

Is the definition of a belief an individual opinion that everyone has the right to make for themselves?

Legally? Yes

Quote:Then why are Christians ask to prove their choice? Shouldn't atheists be required the equal request to show evidence that proves God or any God does NOT exist? Or prove that there is no life after death?

Any atheist that makes those claims does bear a burden of proof.

Quote:If we say there is no God are we making a claim as if we are qualified to make that claim?

We?...

You seem to have a misconception about what an atheist is. Atheism is not "there is no god". It is "I don't believe there is a god" or "I don't see good evidence that a god exists". Some atheists do state it as conclusive but not all.

Quote:but a fair argument would ask: what qualifies Christians to claim there is a God? Regardless of the side you're on, what does qualify us as individuals to claim truth. And does our opinion what we belief to be the meaning of life make our belief truth? Does the fact that we believe in what we believe make it true or does self proclamation allow us the belief that our opinion is correct?

Believing something does not "make it "true" in any meaningful sense. The "it is true for me" mantra is nonsense in that respect.

Quote:Why are those who believe that God is real and people who reject Christ can not enter heaven considered intolerable because they practice what they believe?

Because they create laws based primarily on their beliefs and not evidence. Because they insist on cramming religion into every government meeting and as many aspects of daily life as they can. Because they get indignant when somebody doesn't want to participate. Because they tell atheists they need to sit down and shut up whenever they speak out about the waste of time and money on religious rituals in public spaces and the inherently divisive nature of those activities.

Quote:Are they expected to change their belief and be tolerant to others who do not agree? Wouldn't the person accusing them of being intolerant of other beliefs be claiming their belief to be truth by intolerating the beliefs they decided is incorrect?

Atheists don't insist that city council meetings start with a declaration that there is no god. We don't insist that every bit of currency, every courtroom, and every building be festooned with "there is no god" slogans. We don't insist that believers have to say "Happy Holidays" rather than "Merry Christmas".

Quote:Atheists Christians and all religions agree on a truth that our lives have followed regardless of belief. Every language includes the words bad and good right are wrong.

Yes, secular values are basic to most humans. Religions get their morality from the culture, not vice-versa. We evolved as a social species and that provides the foundation that specific cultures built on.

Quote:Where and why were these words created in every language understood as truth included in the foundation of all communication.

I have no idea what that was meant to say.

Quote:Christianity is the only religion that claims moral truth.

Citation required. I suspect most other religions would disagree.

Quote:All other religion teaches truth because in order to change truth as a foundation, it takes learning doctric to leave the birthplace of truth

Again, I have no idea what you mean by that.

Great points, unfigged Thumbsup

Re: Christianity is the only religion that claims moral truth. No, sorry other Jenny, many religions claim moral truth.

Hinduism, for example, has karma (your actions determine your fate) and the 8 limbs of yoga (which includes ethics, self-discipline, non-violence, truthfulness, noncovetousness, no stealing, etc.). And Hinduism is far, far older than Christianity.
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22-12-2016, 06:46 PM
RE: thought to ponder
(22-12-2016 09:07 AM)jennylindstrom99@gmail.com Wrote:  I would like to present a question without representing any side.

Is the definition of a belief an individual opinion that everyone has the right to make for themselves?

Then why are Christians ask to prove their choice? Shouldn't atheists be required the equal request to show evidence that proves God or any God does NOT exist? Or prove that there is no life after death?

If we say there is no God are we making a claim as if we are qualified to make that claim? but a fair argument would ask: what qualifies Christians to claim there is a God? Regardless of the side you're on, what does qualify us as individuals to claim truth. And does our opinion what we belief to be the meaning of life make our belief truth? Does the fact that we believe in what we believe make it true or does self proclamation allow us the belief that our opinion is correct?

Why are those who believe that God is real and people who reject Christ can not enter heaven considered intolerable because they practice what they believe?

Are they expected to change their belief and be tolerant to others who do not agree? Wouldn't the person accusing them of being intolerant of other beliefs be claiming their belief to be truth by intolerating the beliefs they decided is incorrect?

Atheists Christians and all religions agree on a truth that our lives have followed regardless of belief. Every language includes the words bad and good right are wrong.

Where and why were these words created in every language understood as truth included in the foundation of all communication. Christianity is the only religion that claims moral truth. All other religion teaches truth because in order to change truth as a foundation, it takes learning doctric to leave the birthplace of truth

"Is the definition of a belief an individual opinion that everyone has the right to make for themselves? "

I don't think this is a satisfactory definition of belief. A belief is more than merely opinion, otherwise the two words would be completely interchangeable. A belief is more like a strongly held opinion and the sum total of reasons for said view.

"Then why are Christians ask to prove their choice?"

Because if I am wrong, I want to know. But I want to know how and why I am wrong and not simply hear someone's opinion that I am wrong. If they don't believe in telling me I am wrong for disbelieving in their god, then I won't ask them to prove it.

"Shouldn't atheists be required the equal request to show evidence that proves God or any God does NOT exist? "

How does one prove that which does not exist, does indeed not exist? Isn't a paucity of evidence the only thing one could show?

"Or prove that there is no life after death? "

How would anything survive its own death?

"If we say there is no God are we making a claim as if we are qualified to make that claim?"

I lack a belief in a god. As a consequence of that lack of belief in a god, I might shorten it and simplify it by saying that I believe that god(s) do not exist. This is not a statement with a burden of proof, it is a statement that responds to a claim that possesses the burden of proof.

"but a fair argument would ask: what qualifies Christians to claim there is a God? Regardless of the side you're on, what does qualify us as individuals to claim truth."

Evidence that logically connects to the conclusion is what would qualify someone's belief as being true external to their own brain.

"And does our opinion what we belief to be the meaning of life make our belief truth?"

Seeing as how the meaning of life is something that appears to be subjective, sure. My meaning of life is true for me, regardless of whether or not it is true for anyone else.

"Does the fact that we believe in what we believe make it true or does self proclamation allow us the belief that our opinion is correct? "

The fact that we believe is evidence we believe it. That is rather indisputable, meaning that it is true we believe it. But if we want other people to believe something is true external to our own brains (some sort of objective truth about the universe), then we need evidence that logically connects to that conclusion.

"Why are those who believe that God is real and people who reject Christ can not enter heaven considered intolerable because they practice what they believe?"

Not sure what you are asking here.

"Are they expected to change their belief and be tolerant to others who do not agree? "

They (christians) are expected to live in a civil society that affords the freedom of choice and the freedom of or from religion. So yes, they are expected to tolerate those with opinions contra to their own, but that doesn't mean they are expected to accept or like them. I don't care if christians like my atheism nor do I care if they accept my opinions as valid, but they have no right to discriminate against me.

"Wouldn't the person accusing them of being intolerant of other beliefs be claiming their belief to be truth by intolerating the beliefs they decided is incorrect? "

I am intolerant of intolerance.

"Atheists Christians and all religions agree on a truth that our lives have followed regardless of belief. Every language includes the words bad and good right are wrong."

The fact that we all observe the existence of life isn't really the same as us agreeing on anything. It is a consequence of occupying the same space at the same time.

"Where and why were these words created in every language understood as truth included in the foundation of all communication. Christianity is the only religion that claims moral truth. All other religion teaches truth because in order to change truth as a foundation, it takes learning doctric to leave the birthplace of truth"

1) The evolution of language is fascinating, and a great example of convergent evolution.

2) Christianity is not the only religion that claims moral truth. Judaism and Islam, for example, both claim moral truths.

3) What is it that you mean by "truth" in the context you are using it? Because you seem to be using the word "truth" when you would be better served by the word "opinion."

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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22-12-2016, 06:50 PM
RE: thought to ponder
(22-12-2016 05:45 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(22-12-2016 01:19 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Legally? Yes


Any atheist that makes those claims does bear a burden of proof.


We?...

You seem to have a misconception about what an atheist is. Atheism is not "there is no god". It is "I don't believe there is a god" or "I don't see good evidence that a god exists". Some atheists do state it as conclusive but not all.


Believing something does not "make it "true" in any meaningful sense. The "it is true for me" mantra is nonsense in that respect.


Because they create laws based primarily on their beliefs and not evidence. Because they insist on cramming religion into every government meeting and as many aspects of daily life as they can. Because they get indignant when somebody doesn't want to participate. Because they tell atheists they need to sit down and shut up whenever they speak out about the waste of time and money on religious rituals in public spaces and the inherently divisive nature of those activities.


Atheists don't insist that city council meetings start with a declaration that there is no god. We don't insist that every bit of currency, every courtroom, and every building be festooned with "there is no god" slogans. We don't insist that believers have to say "Happy Holidays" rather than "Merry Christmas".


Yes, secular values are basic to most humans. Religions get their morality from the culture, not vice-versa. We evolved as a social species and that provides the foundation that specific cultures built on.


I have no idea what that was meant to say.


Citation required. I suspect most other religions would disagree.


Again, I have no idea what you mean by that.

Great points, unfigged Thumbsup

Re: Christianity is the only religion that claims moral truth. No, sorry other Jenny, many religions claim moral truth.

Hinduism, for example, has karma (your actions determine your fate) and the 8 limbs of yoga (which includes ethics, self-discipline, non-violence, truthfulness, noncovetousness, no stealing, etc.). And Hinduism is far, far older than Christianity.

The Atherius Society also believe in Karma and Yoga. If you do yoga very well you can leave your body and enter a higher plane to see advance civilizations living on other planets in our solar system such as Venus (Jesus was from Venus).

http://www.aetherius.org/ufos-and-extrat...rial-life/

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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22-12-2016, 06:52 PM (This post was last modified: 22-12-2016 07:01 PM by dancefortwo.)
RE: thought to ponder
Well, shoot! Now I'm confused. We've got WillHopp's "Random Thoughts" thread and Dworkin's "What are you thinking about now" thread and now THIS thread and now I'm sooooo confused. I don't know what to think about anymore. Weeping

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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