trying to understand Islam (+theology in general)
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28-03-2012, 04:39 PM
trying to understand Islam (+theology in general)
Sup people,

I've been (trying) to read the Quran because I don't feel like making judgements on a religion I know very very little about. And as you know "the proof of Allah is in the Quran!" blah blah more blahs

I'm on chapter 8 (well I'm skimming really, I don't have the time to study it in detail) and it's the most boring and pointless piece of literiture I've had the distaste if reading. "Allah is all forgiving, He is merciful" x 100073.

I don't see how humans couldn't gave written that. It seems very possible to me. I could never write a Shakespearean play but I wouldn't claim that to be the work of god, would you?

Also, the fact that it isn't in chronological order (i think It's in verse size longest to shortest) makes it more confusing. I might see a verse I don't like then I'd get the response "read it in context!" usually because some verses have been abrogated and I'm not sure which one is which.

I've tried to keep away from websites that just promote hateful ideas about the religion because that's pretty silly. It's the equivalent of learning from the west Boro baptist cult about Christianity. But the websites that are Islamic are extremely biased (obviously) and some of their argumehts for god make me want to put my head into a blender.

I've also tried to understand some of the arguments from WLC and their counters, also some apologetics like godandscience.com but of the arguments I've seen they aren't too great. WLC is just a good debater his arguments not so much. You could probably guess what he's going to say since he follows the same format all the time.

The reason why I'm doing this is because I've always promoted openmindedness towards these things so I should research it (surprisingly I've been called closed minded just for not accepting a faulty argument)

Has anyone else found it frustrating trying to learn about these things? I don't like underestimating theists because it just leads to complacency but this does seem like an impossible game because "i've never done enough Tongue"

Sapere aude! Have courage to use your own understanding!
Take the risk of thinking for yourself, much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way.


Enlightenment is liberating.
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28-03-2012, 04:52 PM
RE: trying to understand Islam (+theology in general)
I've only read parts of the Qur'an from a world religion course that I took and I didn't get any overview of the truth about it. The only bits I remember are about Jin and how a woman has the right to divorce if she has a fair complaint and brings it to the public square's attention 3 times.

From what I've been told by people in the past on this forum and elsewhere is just reading the Qur'an isn't good. Their prevailing claim is that you have to immerse yourself in the culture and lifestyle of Islam and continuing to read the Qur'an to understand it's message of truth... In clear not jumbled terms:

The only way it makes sense is if you accept it and close your mind. Which would be very counterproductive to what you are out to achieve. That is the same type of message Christians use in regards to the inconsistencies or false claims of the Bible. You just believe in God blindly that he takes care of these gaps and overlook them and you're clear to your path of the holiness.

I recommend you don't try this but just gather all your logical issues or complaints about the Qur'an and go over those with additional source inquiry.
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28-03-2012, 05:31 PM
RE: trying to understand Islam (+theology in general)
It's all a waste of time. Quran, Bible, etc. We are talking about wisdom from people who probably never traveled more than 50 miles from where they were born. My 8 year old has a more comprehensive world view than all of them combined. She at least knows that the world is round and there is no god.
Read philosophy from the masters.
I recommend:
"Philosophers without Gods", by Louise Antony
"Existentialism", by Wartenberg
"The Book of Atheist Spirituality", by Comte-Sponville.
Enjoy...

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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29-03-2012, 12:09 AM
RE: trying to understand Islam (+theology in general)
Unfortunately I can't quote anyone right now.

Thanks for the books Thomas, hopefully I'll have the time to read a few eventually.

Clydelee, I get the whole "submerse yourself in the culture of Islam ... blah blah blah" and It's no longer annoying its just stupid.

Also I've noticed I get more threats of hell and people say stuff like the only reason why I'm alive saying god doesn't exist is because Allah is still allowing my heart to beat. and all knowledge is simply revealed by Allah so we should thank him for it... You deserve the fire for dis obeying god (there are a lot of references to fire for the disbelievers in the Quran if you didn't know) ... you know all that rubbish.

Also, the fine tuning argument (for the cosmological probabilities and stuff) is it the same as the design argument?

Sapere aude! Have courage to use your own understanding!
Take the risk of thinking for yourself, much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way.


Enlightenment is liberating.
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29-03-2012, 12:17 AM
RE: trying to understand Islam (+theology in general)
Quote:It's all a waste of time. Quran, Bible, etc. We are talking about wisdom from people who probably never traveled more than 50 miles from where they were born. My 8 year old has a more comprehensive world view than all of them combined. She at least knows that the world is round and there is no god.
Read philosophy from the masters.
I recommend:
"Philosophers without Gods", by Louise Antony
"Existentialism", by Wartenberg
"The Book of Atheist Spirituality", by Comte-Sponville.
Enjoy...

correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't existentialism founded or at least widely proclaimed by the devout Catholic Rene Descartes.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
- my friend Marc
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29-03-2012, 12:49 AM
RE: trying to understand Islam (+theology in general)
It was promoted by Sartre the french atheist philosopher but started by soren Kierkegaard.

Descartes started the mind body problem. Well, made it popular.

Sapere aude! Have courage to use your own understanding!
Take the risk of thinking for yourself, much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way.


Enlightenment is liberating.
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