vatican people guilty of posession of child porn
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21-02-2015, 07:42 PM
RE: vatican people guilty of posession of child porn
Why is it always the Roman Catholic Church?

I would expect there to be a small number of paedophiles, spread out in any organisation,as in society as a whole, but the Catholic church seems to be infested.

Maybe its the celibacy thing, maybe its something else... I don't know, but if Pope Francis really is as progressive and modern thinking as he claims to be (which I think is all a front), then he will turn these people over to the courts, and allow this church's victims some justice.

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21-02-2015, 08:11 PM (This post was last modified: 21-02-2015 08:30 PM by mordant.)
RE: vatican people guilty of posession of child porn
(21-02-2015 07:42 PM)Sam Wrote:  Why is it always the Roman Catholic Church?

I would expect there to be a small number of paedophiles, spread out in any organisation,as in society as a whole, but the Catholic church seems to be infested.

Maybe its the celibacy thing, maybe its something else... I don't know, but if Pope Francis really is as progressive and modern thinking as he claims to be (which I think is all a front), then he will turn these people over to the courts, and allow this church's victims some justice.
The thing is that if you want to screw little boys you will be attracted to the priesthood, or to certain teaching positions, scoutmastering, or some similar thing that puts you in a position (pun slightly intended) to do what you want to do. This doesn't make Catholicism, Scouting or public schools inherently bad, but it does require very careful, thorough and vigilant controls and safeguards to prevent abuse. It's clear that the Catholic church has become a systemic machine for pederasty; not only does it not have safety mechanisms in place for the kids, it has enabling mechanisms for the perps. So of course it's infested with pederasts.

I don't think Frances is 100% a front, and maybe not even at all a front. He may be a very sincere man. But, he faces a fundamental problem. The short version is that although he's in charge, he's in charge of a fundamentally flawed and dysfunctional system.

A little more detail for those who want it: Christian morality and doctrine are supposed to be immutable -- unchanging. This is especially true of the Catholics, who claim an unbroken lineage of Popes back to Peter himself and ultimately Jesus, who have delivered capital-T truth for two millennia now. They also are committed to a teaching that the scriptures and the popes are infallible in matters of doctrine and practice, and that god's laws never, ever change, or need to change.

This silly notion paints them into a painful corner. They can't openly admit that a particular way of functioning has been ineffective or harmful or, ahem, mistaken.

Of course the RCC has changed, or it wouldn't even be as marginally relevant as it is today. The change is just slow, and a discrete distance behind the rest of society. That way, any given generation can function under the illusion that nothing has changed during their lifetime.

Hence if Francis wants to decide that homosexuality is not a sin or wants to allow Church-sanctioned gay marriage (for example) he can do little more than set the stage for that by de-emphasizing enforcement, making conciliatory-sounding noises, toning down rhetoric, and sending signals that the Church is willing to look the other way if you break certain supposedly immutable rules. Then he can only hope that none of his successors will be stupid enough to try to undo those gestures. Maybe a generation from now, the actual teachings can start to morph, and maybe 10 popes or 100 years hence, the actual doctrines will have perceptibly evolved. Within any generation it won't be perceived as some kind of reversal of a prior position. Students of Church history will be aware of it, but they tend to be more liberal anyway, and will regard it as a soberly deliberated, judicious change -- not as blowing with the winds of the times.

The problem is that in the modern era, the rate of societal and cultural change is accelerating, and the church can no longer change fast enough to keep up with it and still maintain some illusion of immutability and infallibility.

It took them several centuries to pardon Galileo for having the temerity to suggest that the sun did not revolve around the earth; they do not have that kind of time to get around to repealing priestly celibacy and to take other steps to deal with their rampant pederasty.
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21-02-2015, 08:15 PM
RE: vatican people guilty of posession of child porn
100,000 Movies???!!!!!!! This guy has to have the world's worst case of tennis elbow. wow.

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21-02-2015, 08:23 PM
RE: vatican people guilty of posession of child porn
Is it even a surprise anymore >.>
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21-02-2015, 10:00 PM (This post was last modified: 21-02-2015 10:04 PM by Ace.)
RE: vatican people guilty of posession of child porn
(21-02-2015 08:11 PM)mordant Wrote:  Hence if Francis wants to decide that homosexuality is not a sin or wants to allow Church-sanctioned gay marriage (for example) he can do little more than set the stage for that by de-emphasizing enforcement, making conciliatory-sounding noises, toning down rhetoric, and sending signals that the Church is willing to look the other way if you break certain supposedly immutable rules. Then he can only hope that none of his successors will be stupid enough to try to undo those gestures. Maybe a generation from now, the actual teachings can start to morph, and maybe 10 popes or 100 years hence, the actual doctrines will have perceptibly evolved. Within any generation it won't be perceived as some kind of reversal of a prior position. Students of Church history will be aware of it, but they tend to be more liberal anyway, and will regard it as a soberly deliberated, judicious change -- not as blowing with the winds of the times.

pope frankenstein denounced homosexuality a while ago saying it defaces god's perfect plan so it seems they hit the breakes on changes and want to go back to the old way
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21-02-2015, 10:12 PM
RE: vatican people guilty of posession of child porn
The only problem the vatican has now is to figure out which catholic school they're going to put this guy in charge of.
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22-02-2015, 09:52 AM
RE: vatican people guilty of posession of child porn
(21-02-2015 10:00 PM)Ace Wrote:  pope frankenstein denounced homosexuality a while ago saying it defaces god's perfect plan so it seems they hit the breakes on changes and want to go back to the old way
He dodges and weaves, talking out both sides of his mouth. I think it's clear that he personally wants to be conciliatory but like a politician he has to play to his base, and like a US Republican he has a significant base of hard-core conservatives to deal with.

Actually I think Vatican politics is slowly corrupting / subsuming him and it's just a question of how long he can hold out, and what part of that sticks. If I were a Catholic I would be pretty depressed about the prospects of real change in my own lifetime -- or even in my children's lifetimes.
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22-02-2015, 10:25 AM
RE: vatican people guilty of posession of child porn
(21-02-2015 05:52 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Why is this character not being tried in a secular court?

Things won't go well for Grampa in a Dominican Republic jail. Did the Vatican Arrest an Abuser to Protect Him? Then again they are 80% Roman Catholic so it could just be the start of a new congregation more ... understanding of his proclivities.

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#sigh
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22-02-2015, 10:45 AM
RE: vatican people guilty of posession of child porn
(22-02-2015 09:52 AM)mordant Wrote:  
(21-02-2015 10:00 PM)Ace Wrote:  pope frankenstein denounced homosexuality a while ago saying it defaces god's perfect plan so it seems they hit the breakes on changes and want to go back to the old way
He dodges and weaves, talking out both sides of his mouth. I think it's clear that he personally wants to be conciliatory but like a politician he has to play to his base, and like a US Republican he has a significant base of hard-core conservatives to deal with.

Actually I think Vatican politics is slowly corrupting / subsuming him and it's just a question of how long he can hold out, and what part of that sticks. If I were a Catholic I would be pretty depressed about the prospects of real change in my own lifetime -- or even in my children's lifetimes.

from what I can tell, using god is the only way the republican party even gets any votes these days
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22-02-2015, 10:47 AM
RE: vatican people guilty of posession of child porn
(22-02-2015 10:25 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(21-02-2015 05:52 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Why is this character not being tried in a secular court?

Things won't go well for Grampa in a Dominican Republic jail. Did the Vatican Arrest an Abuser to Protect Him? Then again they are 80% Roman Catholic so it could just be the start of a new congregation more ... understanding of his proclivities.

[Image: gpa.jpg]

I want him in prison washing clothes and dishes during his entire sentence
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