(video) Police pepper spraying students that are... just sitting there?
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22-11-2011, 11:38 AM
RE: (video) Police pepper spraying students that are... just sitting there?
There are actually many fully legal protests, it's not hard to set it up so that the police are on your side in a protest. Most rights movements have not been won over politics but over protests. When people see a large enough group for something they start to change their mind. Look at the GLBT protests, which often have been legally formed, the counter protest side is getting pretty small and this is what influences the masses who make the laws important. The problem with occupy is that it's just an insurrection without any plan, it's a bunch of people going hey lets protest our government that'll change something. If they had any sort of strong message the people would know it fully by now. The protests are huge. Some illegal protests are fine like stone wall, or many others. But you need to have a very specific message if you're planning to break the law in order to be noticed.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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23-11-2011, 12:25 AM
RE: (video) Police pepper spraying students that are... just sitting there?
This is the single most disgusting thread I've read on TTA. It's literally soured my stomach.

DID ANY OF YOU APOLOGISTS FOR POLICE BRUTALITY WATCH THE FUCKING VIDEO???

DO YOU HAVE ANY COMPREHENSION OF WHAT WENT ON???

These were students protesting peacefully. I don't care WHAT they were protesting. It's not relevant. What's relevant is that they were entirely non-violent. Not a single incident of violence against people or property was reported. Not a single arrest was made for violence.

And this asshole cop uses a chemical weapon against seated, unarmed, non-violent students. He sprays them as if he's spraying cockroaches with insecticide.

And you guys are defending the cop.

I guess we should be thankful it was only pepper spray and not an assault rifle, huh?

Makes me sick.

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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23-11-2011, 10:36 AM
RE: (video) Police pepper spraying students that are... just sitting there?
My point is that there are better things to do in order to gain respect and make a change than sitting on a sidewalk. Would it suck to get pepper sprayed in the face? Yes. Do I want to be pepper sprayed? No, hell no. Do I want the police able to pepper spray individuals who are breaking the law rather than shooting and/or beating them? Yes. These kids may have been breaking the law peacefully but they were still breaking the law. Resist arrest or refuse to vacate? That deserves a response. Would you have preferred they throw them to the ground and arrest them? My point remains this; your decisions have consequences and if you want those consequences to be positive, then you need to work to make that happen. Your school is raising tuition? Threaten to transfer and if they do raise them, then transfer. I must disagree with your assessment that whatever they were protesting does not matter. And it is also unfortunate to say this but they could learn something from the Westboro baptist church (I cringe at the thought of this). What they could have learned is how, where and when to protest so as not to break any laws and therefore invoke no police response. To say that these kids aren't responsible for their own actions is to neglect the fact that they make their own decisions.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
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23-11-2011, 11:00 AM
RE: (video) Police pepper spraying students that are... just sitting there?
The pepper spray was extreme overkill. I don't agree with the students but that doesn't mean they should be harmed. Especially not to the degree they were. I've been sprayed by all sorts of shit by police and pepper spray fucking hurts. It can do serious damage. Honestly I'd rather be tased. Which also hurts. Burt when it's done it's pretty much done minus some spasms. Pepper spray hurts all fucking day.
Overkill for sure. Who cares if they were breaking the law by sitting there. Pepper spray is not by any means an equal and opposite reaction. Opposite yes but equal not by a long shot. Arrests would have been better. Before anyone can say that pepper spray is a better solution go shoot yourself in te face with some then tell me how much better it is.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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23-11-2011, 11:13 AM
RE: (video) Police pepper spraying students that are... just sitting there?
Okay, the pic might be a bit of a dick move...but I still find it amusing. And before you feel the need to comment on the rudeness, I am well aware that I am an asshole.

Alright, pepper spray sucks. I had very little doubt about that. I wonder if it has become the preferred less lethal weapon as a result of all of the bad publicity around tasers? (That is a serious question now). I mean, at one point in time beating someone with a nightstick was less violent than shooting them, then came pepper spray, then tasers and now pepper spray again.

And perhaps I will also say this with regards to ones actions, if you don't want to potentially be arrested, tazed, pepper sprayed, shot or beaten, then don't put yourself in that position. If you are going to protest (for a good or bad reason), you should be prepared for this type of thing to occur. That does not make it right (the protest or the use of any of the above methods) but if you feel strongly enough about your cause to run that risk, then go for it. As for the cops, there was probably a better way to go about breaking up the illegal protest than pepper spray, but did they have those options available? And, if you had to deal with self-entitled little college punks all day you too would want to pepper spray them in the face (I have a few students that might need a little pepper spray humbling).

*disclaimer: I am not crazy enough to actually pepper spray any of my students









not yet

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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23-11-2011, 11:26 AM
RE: (video) Police pepper spraying students that are... just sitting there?
Don't get me wrong beard I see your point. The kids had to and deserved to be dealt with. I just believe that it is important to remain equal. To me that means an equal punishment to fit the crime. Should we pepper spray jay walkers? It's as harmless as being an annoying hipster. Just doesn't seem equal somehow. Arrest even seems too much. But I'd prefer it over being sprayed in the face with burning. Maybe they should practice tactics of irritation. Loud crappy music... Oh wait hipsters already like loud crappy music. Higher coffee prices FTW! Or just pee all over the place. That would smell.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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23-11-2011, 11:36 AM
RE: (video) Police pepper spraying students that are... just sitting there?
Okay, point made. Punishment should = crime committed
Perhaps their punishment should be higher tuition (to pay for better security) and fewer student activities (so they spend more time studying than protesting)....wait a minute...

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
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23-11-2011, 12:34 PM (This post was last modified: 23-11-2011 12:39 PM by Thammuz.)
RE: (video) Police pepper spraying students that are... just sitting there?
Quote:@TheBeardedDude
And perhaps I will also say this with regards to ones actions, if you don't want to potentially be arrested, tazed, pepper sprayed, shot or beaten, then don't put yourself in that position

It's your damn duty to protest against injustice. And those greedy wall street ferrets deserve much more than a little protesting. If you think it's okay for a government, or their armed extension (police, army), to abuse people who merely cry for justice, you are a coward. This economic crisis is one of the biggest frauds in history and no action whatsoever is taken against those who caused it. The law and the government CAN be corrupt and unjust. And with all those financially backed lobbyists that pull the strings, you can be damn sure it is. Or do you abide by the 'dura lex sed lex' principle, whatever its content?

Well, then realize apathy and avolition are a major cause of horror in this world.
Sorry, Godwin's law, can't help it
Do you think those millions of jews would have been gassed during WWII if people weren't such weasels thinking: "Oh no, I'm not going to risk my ass, they might arrest me too". No, they didn't react until the very end and then tried to save their measly asses by stating: "Wir haben es nicht gewusst". And those who did act, often suffered the consequences without anyone vouching for them. Better to be a living coward than a dead hero, right?

This is a video of Roland Freisler, the president of the Third Reich's "people's court". Would you think this is justice just because the law prescribes it? According to the law back then, this was all justified. Hey, 'dura lex sed lex', right?






The example might be a bit extreme, but this is what happens when you accept 'the law' as the supreme form of what is right or wrong and just let things slide step by step. And even if you can't win a direct confrontation against the arms in power, wether it be the police or Sturmabteilung, you CAN give a clear message and inspire others as to spread the protest. No need for a molotov there.


Remember: if the American people didn't protest against the law, they'd still be loyal to the queen of England. But that free country they created has been long gone now, with the support of the silent and cowardly masses, unwilling to risk anything for the greater good.



Quote:@TheBeardedDude
Your school is raising tuition? Threaten to transfer and if they do raise them, then transfer.

Just take a moment to think about the evolution of the world if we'd all remain silent... I don't think we can expect a good samaritan to hand out candy and rainbows. If supply and demand calculate that it would be better without the lower and middle class students, then that tuiton will be raised so that in the end only the elite can study and poor beggars will be left without a degree. If you think that's a good evolution, then I hope you'll rejoice when your kids make it to waste disposal assistant 3rd class because they can't get anything else.


Quote:@NotSoVacuous
Stop supporting stupid behavior. Protesting is one thing, breaking the law intentionally to force police action only to then shout "LOOK!!! POLICE ARE TAKING ACTION!" is fucking stupid.

These kids were just sitting there. Even if they called the cop an asshole, even if they all took a dump in his front yard, the violence was still completely out of proportion.






Oh, and I might have been a little excited typing this, but no hard feelings, right guys? Big Grin

"Infinitus est numerus stultorum." (The number of fools is infinite)
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23-11-2011, 12:54 PM
RE: (video) Police pepper spraying students that are... just sitting there?
It was excessive force against peaceful protesters they were just sitting there.

I suppose you guys are ok with the police brutality against peaceful civil rights protesters back in the 50's? You know because they were in a position Where they could be shot at, beaten etc, it was their own fault right?

Even if you don't agree with their goals using force against peaceful protesters can never be justified.

Behold the power of the force!
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24-11-2011, 06:10 AM
RE: (video) Police pepper spraying students that are... just sitting there?
You guys need to watch more South Park. They have an episode for every situation today. The police have, obviously, already seen the episode "Die hippie, die", so they know what happens when you let hippies get together and they have taken the "Eric Cartman method" for dealing with these God damn hippies...

http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-epi...hippie-die

Good work Mr. Policeman!

Smile

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