what IS the relationship between science and Atheism?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
15-11-2010, 03:53 PM
RE: what IS the relationship between science and Atheism?
(15-11-2010 02:31 PM)TruthAddict Wrote:  But, can you elaborate and respond to me as to why atheism is just like theism?
Like I said - both are simply a position on the belief in a god or gods : one for; one against.

Theism states nothing other than belief, just as atheism states nothing except disbelief.

That's all I'm saying.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-11-2010, 04:04 PM
RE: what IS the relationship between science and Atheism?
------just as an aside: I think Matt mistakenly double posted this, so the other one was deleted. If there was something different about the other thread with the same title Matt, just PM me------

So many cats, so few good recipes.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-11-2010, 09:58 PM
RE: what IS the relationship between science and Atheism?
(15-11-2010 03:12 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
Quote:So what is the relationship between science and Atheism? Is it direct or indirect and whichever, how?

Indirect. There's often a correlation, though, because they often share a common cause: skepticism.

This is my position as well. I think that having a sceptical mind is a pre-requisite for both science and atheism. But I also think that curiosity plays a part in it too. Those who declare themselves atheists (as opposed to those who may not believe in any god(s) but just don't think much about it, and therefore don't label themselves as such) usually do so because they have an interest in religion in some way. Look at all the religious discussions on this site; we are curious about religion, and about why people believe in it. This curiosity first leads us to think about why we either believe or don't believe; the question may lead us to research/rationalisation; the subsequent research/rationalisation may or may not involve scientific research. I know that while I've been reading the bible, I've been looking up place names, words, historical figures, etc. This is not scientific research, but the process is scientific. It first involves being curious about something, and then acting on that curiosity to find an answer; it is not starting with an answer and looking for evidence to support it (as is the "thought" process behind theism).

I also think that science is readily associated with atheism partly because theists dissociate themselves from science. Theists are not trying to get other subjects banned in schools (although I could probably drag out a list of literature that theists would like to ban); they are trying to ban evolution, or at the very least, are trying to get teachers to teach the so-called "controversy". This has been going on for ages. The Catholic Church tried to tell Galileo that he and Copernicus were wrong; that the Earth must be in the centre of the solar system, and that to say otherwise was blasphemous. Whenever science challenges a religious idea, theists are usually exposed to a much more rational answer to their questions than is provided in their dogma. If they are properly taught the scientific method, and are exposed to science, then they have to reconcile with these different answers; the only [logical] step is to ask, "which one do I believe?" (I know that some theists cheat and say "both!", but this is more a cop-out than anything). This simple question, if the theist is curious, leads us back to my paragraph above.

Science is a threat to theistic thinking; it challenges the very structure that holds religion together by forcing theists to do exactly what they are not supposed to do: to ask questions. By challenging theism, science [mostly] lends itself naturally to agnosticism/atheism.

(Whew! Sorry for the long post)

"Remember, my friend, that knowledge is stronger than memory, and we should not trust the weaker." - Dr. Van Helsing, Dracula
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-11-2010, 01:22 PM
RE: what IS the relationship between science and Atheism?
(15-11-2010 09:58 PM)SecularStudent Wrote:  
(15-11-2010 03:12 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
Quote:So what is the relationship between science and Atheism? Is it direct or indirect and whichever, how?

Indirect. There's often a correlation, though, because they often share a common cause: skepticism.

This is my position as well. I think that having a sceptical mind is a pre-requisite for both science and atheism.

Not necessarily a prerequisite (there are both atheists and scientists out there who believe some truly balls-out insane ideas), but it definitely helps.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-11-2010, 11:36 PM
RE: what IS the relationship between science and Atheism?
In reading responses (and thanks for deleting that double post, Stark) that the attack on evolution has been conflated with an attack on science. One argument could be that if you attack one branch of science, then you attack science as a whole, but what is misleading about that position is that Theists are not actually attacking the other branches of science. Like medical science and math and chemistry aren't under attack. I don't know any Theists or religions that are calling for the abolition of science. So to me, it's just interesting to point out that the frame exists that Theists are attacking science.

Interesting responses so far. Thanks.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-11-2010, 11:48 PM
RE: what IS the relationship between science and Atheism?
Ghost, in fact theists often use some branches of science to support their arguments that other branches of science are flawed. In fact, sometimes they use the same branch to debunk that very branch. For example, Michael Behe uses biology when he points out his supposed irreducibly complex biological features to debunk (in his mind) evolution. But if biology disproves evolution, then biology is also flawed science since biology as a field of study relies on evolution being a fact.

I hope this made sense.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-11-2010, 05:07 PM
RE: what IS the relationship between science and Atheism?
I think Ghost is right. That's why the science on climate change is universally accepted without any religious groups raising any objections at all to it.

The attack is not on all science, it's on any science that shows that their predetermined world view may not be right. Climate change, for reasons I do not understand, seems to challenge their view of god's supremacy. Same with evolution. They also challenge a lot of physics as the Big Bang theory means the universe is not 10,000 or so years old (and, contrary to what Fr0d0 has claimed, there is a big contingency of wing nuts who believe in the "young Earth" theory).

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-11-2010, 06:11 PM
RE: what IS the relationship between science and Atheism?
(I don't deny the large contingency of YEC wingnuts at all)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-11-2010, 07:47 PM
RE: what IS the relationship between science and Atheism?
(18-11-2010 06:11 PM)fr0d0 Wrote:  (I don't deny the large contingency of YEC wingnuts at all)

ok, I thought you were trying to say it was a very small percentage of people.

My bad.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-11-2010, 09:56 AM
 
RE: what IS the relationship between science and Atheism?
(17-11-2010 11:36 PM)Ghost Wrote:  In reading responses (and thanks for deleting that double post, Stark) that the attack on evolution has been conflated with an attack on science. One argument could be that if you attack one branch of science, then you attack science as a whole, but what is misleading about that position is that Theists are not actually attacking the other branches of science. Like medical science and math and chemistry aren't under attack. I don't know any Theists or religions that are calling for the abolition of science. So to me, it's just interesting to point out that the frame exists that Theists are attacking science.

Interesting responses so far. Thanks.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

except that many theists DO attack science.

because promoting bad science, rewriting scientific definitions in order to make yourself sound right, lumping cosmology, paleontology, archeology, biology, geology, atomic theory and even psychology together under the header of "evolutionism" in order to try to discredit them all at once is a ludicrous attack on ALL science.

as for the tie between atheism and science, it's two things..

a. skepticism/curiosity (in a sense they are really the same thing)

and

b. the idea that in order for something to be considered true and factual..it must be DEMONSTRABLY true and factual.
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: