what if our current views are wrong?
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31-01-2013, 07:22 PM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 07:15 PM)Scientia Wrote:  
(31-01-2013 06:52 PM)Chas Wrote:  Again, you prove nothing. You have no objective measure of that.

Besides, the brain can compensate for small injuries.
No,now you are back peddling. You objected to my position that all brain injuries dose not equate to mental impairment. I had a concussion which is a brain injury. According to you and Fstratzero I should have signs of mental impairment. Like in the video he offered as proof to all brain injuries.
You see the brain has different areas. If you had a brain injury in an area that is not responsible for cognition is may be possible to have 100% cognition, but have other problems. If it happened when you were young there is a possibility that function simply got mapped to another area of the brain.

See neuroplasticity

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31-01-2013, 07:23 PM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 06:59 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(31-01-2013 06:50 PM)Scientia Wrote:  This tells me you have no understanding of dualism. Here is what dualism is and you will see that it has nothing to do with what you are saying.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/dualism/


du·al·ism
noun \ˈdü-ə-ˌli-zəm also ˈdyü-\

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dualism
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05169a.htm

I think you have done a poor job in reading what I've posted and clicking on the links I've provided to support my position.


.
I think those are perfectly valid questions.

Yet all that was needed was a simple mechanism that prevents those things from happening.

In other words I don't understand dualism because you cannot come with the laws which govern the spiritual realm?
People a lot smarter than me, that has spent a life time working in this field don't know 100% for sure. Asking me this is like asking you what is dark matter and how does it do what ever it does. Also my only point was that such a theory existed, and not how it works. And sure you understand dualism, just use the links. You don't fully understand how the brain works but you knew enough to use youtube to find a video to support your position. I could have said the same thing when you said that you thought "the video would suffice" in explain your point.

Science investigates, religion interprets.

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31-01-2013, 07:24 PM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 07:06 PM)Scientia Wrote:  
(31-01-2013 06:46 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  There is not one Neurologist or one Neuroscience that agrees with this absolute bullshit. Obviously you have never been in the Neurology Department either in a hospital, or a medical center. There are quadriplegics everyday trying to use "energy" to do things without physical brain connections. It does not work. You have not a shred of evidence for it. Stop spouting your crap.
I can't argue with you here, I have no formal training in that field.
And you are also correct that I have never been in that department of an
hospital. But do you think they would be talking metaphysics to a
patient they are trying to help? But you don't know what Neuroscience is
if this is the opinion. I suggest you look it up and see what it
covers. Then ask yourself if the mind, brain, and the body's nervous
system it ever discussed and at what length.
Quote:There is not one Neurologist or one Neuroscience that agrees with this absolute bullshit.
You mean you have talked to them all, and all of them reject is both publicly and privately? Ohmy

If they were able to demonstrate it, "metaphysically" or otherwise, they would publish it, and get Nobel prizes.
Mental processes are tracked by MRI scans, and PET scans, and CT scans. ALL of them. There are none that are not.
They have thought about an tried every possible method. There is no "mind" apart from physical brain matter, cells, structure, and normal (oxygenated) function. People who loose o-2 to their brains get brain injured every day, and LOSE their mental function. YOU have not a shred of scientific evidence for anything else. Neither does anyone on the face of the Earth. It's woo woo, at it's worst. It's very obvious you have no training or exposure to the field. Stop embarrassing yourself.

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31-01-2013, 07:28 PM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 07:22 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(31-01-2013 07:15 PM)Scientia Wrote:  No,now you are back peddling. You objected to my position that all brain injuries dose not equate to mental impairment. I had a concussion which is a brain injury. According to you and Fstratzero I should have signs of mental impairment. Like in the video he offered as proof to all brain injuries.
You see the brain has different areas. If you had a brain injury in an area that is not responsible for cognition is may be possible to have 100% cognition, but have other problems. If it happened when you were young there is a possibility that function simply got mapped to another area of the brain.

See neuroplasticity
Since this is not my field of study I can't doubt you, anything is possible. You were just to concrete on your wording and position which involves something that works in strange ways and that we don't fully understand.

Science investigates, religion interprets.

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31-01-2013, 07:32 PM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 07:23 PM)Scientia Wrote:  
(31-01-2013 06:59 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  I think those are perfectly valid questions.

Yet all that was needed was a simple mechanism that prevents those things from happening.

In other words I don't understand dualism because you cannot come with the laws which govern the spiritual realm?
People a lot smarter than me, that has spent a life time working in this field don't know 100% for sure. Asking me this is like asking you what is dark matter and how does it do what ever it does. Also my only point was that such a theory existed, and not how it works. And sure you understand dualism, just use the links. You don't fully understand how the brain works but you knew enough to use youtube to find a video to support your position. I could have said the same thing when you said that you thought "the video would suffice" in explain your point.
In science, the term "theory" refers to "a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment." Theories must also meet further requirements, such as the ability to make falsifiable predictions with consistent accuracy across a broad area of scientific inquiry, and production of strong evidence in favor of the theory from multiple independent sources.

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31-01-2013, 07:40 PM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 07:28 PM)Scientia Wrote:  
(31-01-2013 07:22 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  You see the brain has different areas. If you had a brain injury in an area that is not responsible for cognition is may be possible to have 100% cognition, but have other problems. If it happened when you were young there is a possibility that function simply got mapped to another area of the brain.

See neuroplasticity
Since this is not my field of study I can't doubt you, anything is possible. You were just to concrete on your wording and position which involves something that works in strange ways and that we don't fully understand.
In general I am open minded and if there was strong evidence that these things existed I'd accept them.

Philosophically speaking it's a fun topic in general, and enjoyed the perspective it gave me. However philosophy to me is simply a mental exercise.

Not only that I've spent a ton of time investigating things, and questioning the world around me. So far the story science has to offer is the most internally consistent.

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31-01-2013, 08:16 PM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 07:24 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(31-01-2013 07:06 PM)Scientia Wrote:  If they were able to demonstrate it, "metaphysically" or otherwise, they would publish it, and get Nobel prizes. If they were able to demonstrate it, "metaphysically" or otherwise, they would publish it, and get Nobel prizes.
I agree, but I see this as being a tough hill to climb. Especially with a subject like this.



Quote:Mental processes are tracked by MRI scans, and PET scans, and CT scans. ALL of them. There are none that are not.
I have never had a Pet scan but I have had several MRI and St scans and neither was used to measure my mind. But they do work well in showing up what is physical.

Quote:They
have thought about an tried every possible method. There is no "mind"
apart from physical brain matter, cells, structure, and normal
(oxygenated) function.
I can see why if they were using CT, and MRI scanners to do it with. It all comes down to if you believe in dualim, or monism. So on this point we have to agree to disagree.


Quote: People who loose o-2 to their brains
get brain injured every day, and LOSE their mental function. YOU have
not a shred of scientific evidence for anything else. Neither does
anyone on the face of the Earth. It's woo woo, at it's worst. It's very
obvious you have no training or exposure to the field. Stop embarrassing
yourself.
Wait, you haven't 100% proved that they are not separate from each out. Show me one medical publication that says they have solved the "mind body problem". It's woo woo at it's worst to just say it with no shred of proof. Or the name of the Noble prize winner that has solved this problem.

Science investigates, religion interprets.

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31-01-2013, 08:27 PM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 07:40 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(31-01-2013 07:28 PM)Scientia Wrote:  In general I am open minded and if there was strong evidence that these things existed I'd accept them.
This is the only way to be, and like I said, I'm not an expert. My field is physics and electrical theory. Physics is what go me interested in quantum mechanics and metaphysics.


Quote:Philosophically
speaking it's a fun topic in general, and enjoyed the perspective it
gave me.
I agree, and I like the questions that were being asked of me because it pushes me to go beyond what I know and research to at least give a sensible answer.
Quote:However philosophy to me is simply a mental exercise.
This is very true, and you will get a mental workout if you put effort into thinking about what is being asked.


Quote:Not
only that I've spent a ton of time investigating things, and
questioning the world around me. So far the story science has to offer
is the most internally consistent.
Thank you for sharing your insights with me. I'm always willing to listen.

Science investigates, religion interprets.

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31-01-2013, 08:34 PM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 07:32 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(31-01-2013 07:23 PM)Scientia Wrote:  People a lot smarter than me, that has spent a life time working in this field don't know 100% for sure. Asking me this is like asking you what is dark matter and how does it do what ever it does. Also my only point was that such a theory existed, and not how it works. And sure you understand dualism, just use the links. You don't fully understand how the brain works but you knew enough to use youtube to find a video to support your position. I could have said the same thing when you said that you thought "the video would suffice" in explain your point.
In science, the term "theory" refers to "a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment." Theories must also meet further requirements, such as the ability to make falsifiable predictions with consistent accuracy across a broad area of scientific inquiry, and production of strong evidence in favor of the theory from multiple independent sources.

You are correct, metaphysics is a theory of the essence of things, of the fundamental principles that organize the universe. It's supposed to answer the question "what is the nature of reality?" As I've said before (I think) metaphysics differs from science, which tries to answer similar questions but through more concrete methods

Science investigates, religion interprets.

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31-01-2013, 09:03 PM
Re: RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 08:34 PM)Scientia Wrote:  
(31-01-2013 07:32 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  In science, the term "theory" refers to "a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment." Theories must also meet further requirements, such as the ability to make falsifiable predictions with consistent accuracy across a broad area of scientific inquiry, and production of strong evidence in favor of the theory from multiple independent sources.

You are correct, metaphysics is a theory of the essence of things, of the fundamental principles that organize the universe. It's supposed to answer the question "what is the nature of reality?" As I've said before (I think) metaphysics differs from science, which tries to answer similar questions but through more concrete methods

If you change the word theory with philosophy in that paragraph. I think it would fit more correctly.

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