what if our current views are wrong?
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31-01-2013, 04:59 AM (This post was last modified: 31-01-2013 09:19 AM by Chas.)
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 04:50 AM)Scientia Wrote:  
(31-01-2013 04:31 AM)Chas Wrote:  True, but we are made up of atoms, and quantum mechanics deal with energy and matter on a very small scale. I'm talking about Metaphysics which deals with existence and consciousness.
I'm talking about biology, chemistry, and physics which deal with existence and consciousness.
Our minds are an emergent property of our brains. When your brain dies, there is no mind. Dualism is a myth.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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31-01-2013, 09:16 AM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(23-01-2013 11:25 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  
(14-01-2013 05:19 AM)Nappa Wrote:  What if the views of what life and death is are wrong? What if the concepts of you, me, it are wrong?

current world views of life and death were mainly developed by religious organizations. You are born and god gave you a soul, you die and you go to heaven. With atheists this just leaves, you are born and you die. But that is still fundamental remnants of the old religious philosophy.

What if we aren't born? And what if we don't die?

Secondly the entire concept of individuality is based on religion principles. We all have different 'souls'.

But what if we're not separate? what if we're whole? Instead of going through the process of being born and dying, what if we ,the whole, were consistent?
What if the sun doesn't rise tomorrow?

What if love really IS all you need?
The sun doesn't rise, the earth orbits the sun and rotates on it's axis which may give the illusion to a primitive culture that the sun rises.

You don't need love, all you need is rationality.
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31-01-2013, 09:25 AM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 09:16 AM)Nappa Wrote:  
(23-01-2013 11:25 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  What if the sun doesn't rise tomorrow?

What if love really IS all you need?
You don't need love, all you need is rationality.
Bwahahahahahahahhahahaha.

Better comedy here than Comedy Central.

A single action is worth more than the words it takes to describe it.
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31-01-2013, 10:57 AM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
Hmm really gets you thinking I mean we are born only to die which doesn't really explain our purpose. We could become smarter or more evolved but why could we have come to existence, much less the universe itself with nothing behind it. I strongly think that everything has a reason behind itself but as science improves so will our understanding of human purpose in this vast thing we call life.
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31-01-2013, 11:00 AM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
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Is this place still a shithole run by a dumbass calvinist?
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31-01-2013, 11:17 AM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 10:57 AM)Thedude5555 Wrote:  Hmm really gets you thinking I mean we are born only to die which doesn't really explain our purpose. We could become smarter or more evolved but why could we have come to existence, much less the universe itself with nothing behind it. I strongly think that everything has a reason behind itself but as science improves so will our understanding of human purpose in this vast thing we call life.


Why do you believe there is a purpose?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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31-01-2013, 11:33 AM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 11:17 AM)Chas Wrote:  Why do you believe there is a purpose?
It is a human thing, to yearn for a purpose.
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31-01-2013, 11:35 AM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 11:33 AM)Nappa Wrote:  
(31-01-2013 11:17 AM)Chas Wrote:  Why do you believe there is a purpose?
It is a human thing, to yearn for a purpose.


Yearning and believing are not the same.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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31-01-2013, 01:20 PM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 04:59 AM)Chas Wrote:  I'm talking about biology, chemistry, and physics which deal with existence and consciousness.
Our minds are an emergent property of our brains. When your brain dies, there is no mind.
Biology and chemistry are not the same as metaphysics. They overlap in some ways but they are distinct in what they cover. For example consciousness can be looked at as an efficacious force
in the evolution of the species.
Quote:Half a century ago, many did not think it was possible to understand the
secret of life. Then two scientists, Jim Watson and Francis Crick,
discovered the structure of DNA, forever changing biology and the way we
view ourselves in the natural order of things. We are now once again
facing a similar pursuit in determining the material basis of the
conscious mind. Consciousness is one of the major unsolved problem in
science
http://www.ircs.upenn.edu/pinkel/lecture...ndex.shtml


Metaphysics goes beyond the physical:
Quote:[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]While physics is the study of physical reality, metaphysics includes that which is beyond the physical, but not necessarily the spiritual. Spiritual metaphysics
takes an entirely different orientation. Spiritual metaphysics sees an
ultimate, metaphysical source of all creation as the basis of reality[/font]
[/font]
http://www.infinitebeing.com/0612/spirit...hysics.htm

Also:





Chemistry when is comes to consciousness is dealing with reductionism. Philosophers such as Kant and Hegel have debated this. Today, the question that is being debated is could consciousness (as we know it) ever be reduced to a set
of nerve cells and chemical interactions in the brain?

So you are not totally wrong, we are obviously approaching the OP from two different directions, lets pick one of the three; because if we don't, we won't too much agree on anything.

Quote:Dualism is a myth.
In what way? First lets get it defined.
Quote:In the philosophy of mind, dualism is the
theory that the mental and the physical—or mind and body or
mind and brain—are, in some sense, radically different kinds
of things.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/dualism/


du·al·ism
noun \ˈdü-ə-ˌli-zəm also ˈdyü-\

Quote:Definition of DUALISM


1
: a theory that considers reality to consist of two irreducible elements or modes

2
: the quality or state of being dual or of having a dual nature
3
a : a doctrine that the universe is under the dominion of two opposing principles one of which is good and the other evil b : a view of human beings as constituted of two irreducible elements (as matter and spirit)
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dualism

You, yourself said:
Quote:When your brain dies, there is no mind.
If this is the case, where did the mind/consciousness go? When the body dies, the brain and all the other organs remain with the body. You can physically touch, and see them, but why can't we do this with the mind? Dualism is a theory, and a theory is a set of facts based on analysis. But I can't argue with your opinion on dualism because you can't disprove someone's belief.

Science investigates, religion interprets.

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31-01-2013, 01:28 PM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 10:57 AM)Thedude5555 Wrote:  Hmm really gets you thinking I mean we are born only to die which doesn't really explain our purpose. We could become smarter or more evolved but why could we have come to existence, much less the universe itself with nothing behind it. I strongly think that everything has a reason behind itself but as science improves so will our understanding of human purpose in this vast thing we call life.
I agree with this, as we progress in science we will learn more about what we are. I don't know about purpose, but who knows Drinking Beverage

Science investigates, religion interprets.

I got my first like....[Image: weeping.gif] Thank you!
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