what if our current views are wrong?
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31-01-2013, 03:46 PM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 03:22 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Those other elements are still gas, until it fuses silicon and creates a dense core of iron.
Yes, in the examples you posted you are correct. All stars have to deal with hydrostatic equilibrium, and the sun is no different.

Science investigates, religion interprets.

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31-01-2013, 03:48 PM (This post was last modified: 31-01-2013 04:05 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
The point of these videos it to try to demonstrate that the mind is the brain, and damage to the brain changes the mind irreversibly.

If the two were separate then this shouldn't be so.







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31-01-2013, 03:56 PM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 03:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(31-01-2013 02:13 PM)Scientia Wrote:  When the brain is sufficiently injured, the mind suffers
In what way? A concussion is a brain injury but many people still function very well.
Quote:If the mind is a separate thing, why should this be so?
I don't have an answer for this. We are still trying to fully understand the mine and why it is, and why it is not a physical thing.

Quote:Please explain how psychoactive drugs work on this substance of the mind.
From what I know, these drugs operate on a chemical interaction level with the brain and nervous system, like all drugs. But some drug effect different parts of the body. It goes without saying that many drugs effect a person's mood, perception, behavior, etc. But what is your point as it relates to the mind?

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31-01-2013, 04:03 PM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 03:56 PM)Scientia Wrote:  
(31-01-2013 03:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  In what way? A concussion is a brain injury but many people still function very well.
Quote:If the mind is a separate thing, why should this be so?
I don't have an answer for this. We are still trying to fully understand the mine and why it is, and why it is not a physical thing.

Quote:Please explain how psychoactive drugs work on this substance of the mind.
From what I know, these drugs operate on a chemical interaction level with the brain and nervous system, like all drugs. But some drug effect different parts of the body. It goes without saying that many drugs effect a person's mood, perception, behavior, etc. But what is your point as it relates to the mind?
Drugs are chemicals that affect the chemistry of the brain and alter the behavior of the mind.

If the mind is not a result of brain activity, why should drugs affect it? How could chemicals affect it?

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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31-01-2013, 04:07 PM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 03:27 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  Here is an example of how a damaged brain, can alter a persons mind.


I don't deny that brain injury can have this type of effect on a person. But are you implying that all levels of brain injury results in this type of behavior?

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31-01-2013, 04:10 PM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 04:07 PM)Scientia Wrote:  
(31-01-2013 03:27 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  Here is an example of how a damaged brain, can alter a persons mind.


I don't deny that brain injury can have this type of effect on a person. But are you implying that all levels of brain injury results in this type of behavior?
I didn't indicate one behavior over another. Simply that any damage done to the brain affects the mind.

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31-01-2013, 04:27 PM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(14-01-2013 10:20 AM)Julius Wrote:  
(14-01-2013 08:19 AM)Nappa Wrote:  Here you are speaking of physical bodies and personality, when I am
still referring to consciousness. And I might be the only other person
here who understands what EEG is without having to look it up.
Here you bring up a mind/body dichotomy that is not justified.

For example, let me pose a similar question: what happens to our digestion when we die? Ever think about that one? I mean, our digestive system is responsible for turning solid food to energy and this ceases when we die....but other than the above example, I don't know of anyone who seriously asks the question, "What happens to our digestion when we die?".

Likewise, as our digestive system converts solid matter to energy, or nervous system converts sensory inputs to meaningful abstractions - and this we call a conciousness. And, like digestion which is a product of the functioning of the organs of our digestive system, or conciousness is also a function of the organs comprising our nervous system. There is nothing magic about it.
While our sentient being certainly requires a digestive system, as we perceive of things, could not an abstract part of us relate to a higher self, to which we thus far can only barely intuit in remote ways? Consider
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31-01-2013, 04:44 PM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 03:48 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  The point of these videos it to try to demonstrate that the mind is the brain, and damage to the brain changes the mind irreversibly.

If the two were separate then this shouldn't be so.






Oh, I see where you are going. You are using the brain damage argument because I believe in dualism. Your point is valid because if the brain is damage whether caused by an accident,drug abuse, or disease, the mental functions the person are
significantly compromised. And your point is that If the mind were a completely separate
substance from the brain, how could it be possible that every
single time the brain is injured, the mind is also injured?
Have I understood you correctly?

If so I maintain that the brain and mind are separate from each other. For the simple reason the brain can been seen as the mind's gateway
to the world, and the mind makes use of the brain's several
functions to accomplish its tasks. When the brain is damaged, the
mind is unharmed because it is a noncorporeal entity.
Quote:One of the deepest and most lasting legacies of Descartes’
philosophy is his thesis that mind and body are really distinct–a
thesis now called “mind-body dualism.” He reaches this conclusion by
arguing that the nature of the mind (that is, a thinking, non-extended
thing) is completely different from that of the body (that is, an
extended, non-thinking thing), and therefore it is possible for one to
exist without the other.
http://www.iep.utm.edu/descmind/


So the mind's "tool" has been damaged to the extent that the mind
can make use of only certain functions, often in a limited way. Just like your video shows. The video also said that the frontal lobe was damage, but still he was able to talk,walk,see, and do many other things. If you have a blown engine, most people including me would say that their car is not running. But in fact the rest of the car is fine, but it is "limited" in what it can do because the motor just doesn't work.

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31-01-2013, 04:45 PM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 04:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(31-01-2013 03:56 PM)Scientia Wrote:  I don't have an answer for this. We are still trying to fully understand the mine and why it is, and why it is not a physical thing.

From what I know, these drugs operate on a chemical interaction level with the brain and nervous system, like all drugs. But some drug effect different parts of the body. It goes without saying that many drugs effect a person's mood, perception, behavior, etc. But what is your point as it relates to the mind?
Drugs are chemicals that affect the chemistry of the brain and alter the behavior of the mind.

If the mind is not a result of brain activity, why should drugs affect it? How could chemicals affect it?
Once again, this is the brain argument. The brain is just a tool that the mind uses to carry out it's task.

Science investigates, religion interprets.

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31-01-2013, 04:46 PM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 04:10 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(31-01-2013 04:07 PM)Scientia Wrote:  I don't deny that brain injury can have this type of effect on a person. But are you implying that all levels of brain injury results in this type of behavior?
I didn't indicate one behavior over another. Simply that any damage done to the brain affects the mind.
You have not provided any proof of this.

Science investigates, religion interprets.

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