what if our current views are wrong?
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31-01-2013, 06:44 PM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 06:39 PM)Scientia Wrote:  
(31-01-2013 05:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  
This only proves my point and the relationship between the mind and the brain wouldn't you agree? Isn't that how we determine if a person is
alive or conscious, if they should some kind of physical response?


Quote:How does this incorporeal mind use the brain? How does it interact with the brain? Why does it even need the brain?
In my opinion I would say that the mind is the driving force because it gives rise to thoughts, actions, emotions, and consciousness.

Quote:II. The mind and brain are separate phenomena, with the mind being more primary: As
just mentioned above, we perceive that it is very important to understand that the biological,
physical brain and the non-biological, non-physical mind are separate, qualitatively different
phenomena, and to recognize that the non-biological mind is the “leader,” “master,” and more
primary phenomena.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&...GE&cad=rja

How it works with the brain is through energy, though force.

Really? That's the best explanation you have?

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31-01-2013, 06:46 PM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 06:39 PM)Scientia Wrote:  This only proves my point and the relationship between the mind and the brain wouldn't you agree? Isn't that how we determine if a person is
alive or conscious, if they should some kind of physical response?


Quote:How does this incorporeal mind use the brain? How does it interact with the brain? Why does it even need the brain?
In my opinion I would say that the mind is the driving force because it gives rise to thoughts, actions, emotions, and consciousness.

Quote:II. The mind and brain are separate phenomena, with the mind being more primary: As
just mentioned above, we perceive that it is very important to understand that the biological,
physical brain and the non-biological, non-physical mind are separate, qualitatively different
phenomena, and to recognize that the non-biological mind is the “leader,” “master,” and more
primary phenomena.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&...GE&cad=rja

How it works with the brain is through energy, though force.
There is not one Neurologist or one Neuroscientist that agrees with this absolute bullshit. Obviously you have never been in the Neurology Department either in a hospital, or a medical center. There are quadriplegics everyday trying to use "energy" to do things without physical brain connections. It does not work. You have not a shred of evidence for it. Stop spouting your crap.

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31-01-2013, 06:47 PM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
Force equals mass x acceleration.
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31-01-2013, 06:50 PM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 06:29 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  I feel as though this form of dualism has been reasoned through poorly.

Suppose I desire to control another body and not my own, what prevents me from switching?

Even if two people consent to the exchange why does it not happen?

What mechanism tethers souls to bodies? Can this mechanism be reproduced, if so, what prevents a computer from hijacking this tether to create remote controlled humans?

Suppose the dead, which far out number the living, revolted against those who control bodies. Would everybody shut down while these noncoporeal minds do battle?
This tells me you have no understanding of dualism. Here is what dualism is and you will see that it has nothing to do with what you are saying.
Quote:In the philosophy of mind, dualism is the
theory that the mental and the physical—or mind and body or
mind and brain—are, in some sense, radically different kinds
of thing
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/dualism/


du·al·ism
noun \ˈdü-ə-ˌli-zəm also ˈdyü-\

Quote:Definition of DUALISM


1
: a theory that considers reality to consist of two irreducible elements or modes

2
: the quality or state of being dual or of having a dual nature
3
a : a doctrine that the universe is under the dominion of two opposing principles one of which is good and the other evil b : a view of human beings as constituted of two irreducible elements (as matter and spirit)
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dualism
Quote:Second, the term dualism is employed in opposition to monism, to signify the ordinary view that the existing universe contains two radically distinct kinds of being or substance — matter and spirit, body and mind. This is the most frequent use of the name in modern philosophy, where it is commonly contrasted with monism.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05169a.htm

I think you have done a poor job in reading what I've posted and clicking on the links I've provided to support my position.


.

Science investigates, religion interprets.

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31-01-2013, 06:51 PM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 06:44 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(31-01-2013 06:39 PM)Scientia Wrote:  This only proves my point and the relationship between the mind and the brain wouldn't you agree? Isn't that how we determine if a person is
alive or conscious, if they should some kind of physical response?


In my opinion I would say that the mind is the driving force because it gives rise to thoughts, actions, emotions, and consciousness.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&...GE&cad=rja

How it works with the brain is through energy, though force.

Really? That's the best explanation you have?
Please be specific as to what you are referring to.

Science investigates, religion interprets.

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31-01-2013, 06:52 PM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 06:43 PM)Scientia Wrote:  
(31-01-2013 06:22 PM)Chas Wrote:  Proving absolutely nothing. You may have no brain injury, you may have mild brain injury.
Yes, I had a concussion which is a brain injury. So it does prove that all brain injuries dose not result in mental impairment.

Again, you prove nothing. You have no objective measure of that.

Besides, the brain can compensate for small injuries.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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31-01-2013, 06:52 PM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 06:51 PM)Scientia Wrote:  
(31-01-2013 06:44 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  Really? That's the best explanation you have?
Please be specific as to what you are referring to.
What energy?

What force?

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
-Baron d'Holbach-
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31-01-2013, 06:59 PM (This post was last modified: 31-01-2013 07:04 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 06:50 PM)Scientia Wrote:  
(31-01-2013 06:29 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  I feel as though this form of dualism has been reasoned through poorly.

Suppose I desire to control another body and not my own, what prevents me from switching?

Even if two people consent to the exchange why does it not happen?

What mechanism tethers souls to bodies? Can this mechanism be reproduced, if so, what prevents a computer from hijacking this tether to create remote controlled humans?

Suppose the dead, which far out number the living, revolted against those who control bodies. Would everybody shut down while these noncoporeal minds do battle?
This tells me you have no understanding of dualism. Here is what dualism is and you will see that it has nothing to do with what you are saying.
Quote:In the philosophy of mind, dualism is the
theory that the mental and the physical—or mind and body or
mind and brain—are, in some sense, radically different kinds
of thing
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/dualism/


du·al·ism
noun \ˈdü-ə-ˌli-zəm also ˈdyü-\

Quote:Definition of DUALISM


1
: a theory that considers reality to consist of two irreducible elements or modes

2
: the quality or state of being dual or of having a dual nature
3
a : a doctrine that the universe is under the dominion of two opposing principles one of which is good and the other evil b : a view of human beings as constituted of two irreducible elements (as matter and spirit)
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dualism
Quote:Second, the term dualism is employed in opposition to monism, to signify the ordinary view that the existing universe contains two radically distinct kinds of being or substance — matter and spirit, body and mind. This is the most frequent use of the name in modern philosophy, where it is commonly contrasted with monism.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05169a.htm

I think you have done a poor job in reading what I've posted and clicking on the links I've provided to support my position.


.
I think those are perfectly valid questions.

Yet all that was needed was a simple mechanism that prevents those things from happening.

In other words I don't understand dualism because you cannot come with the laws which govern the spiritual realm?

Member of the Cult of Reason

The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
-Baron d'Holbach-
Bitcion:1DNeQMswMdvx4xLPP6qNE7RkeTwXGC7Bzp
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31-01-2013, 07:06 PM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 06:46 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(31-01-2013 06:39 PM)Scientia Wrote:  This only proves my point and the relationship between the mind and the brain wouldn't you agree? Isn't that how we determine if a person is
alive or conscious, if they should some kind of physical response?


In my opinion I would say that the mind is the driving force because it gives rise to thoughts, actions, emotions, and consciousness.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&...GE&cad=rja

How it works with the brain is through energy, though force.
There is not one Neurologist or one Neuroscience that agrees with this absolute bullshit. Obviously you have never been in the Neurology Department either in a hospital, or a medical center. There are quadriplegics everyday trying to use "energy" to do things without physical brain connections. It does not work. You have not a shred of evidence for it. Stop spouting your crap.
I can't argue with you here, I have no formal training in that field.
And you are also correct that I have never been in that department of an
hospital. But do you think they would be talking metaphysics to a
patient they are trying to help? But you don't know what Neuroscience is
if this is the opinion. I suggest you look it up and see what it
covers. Then ask yourself if the mind, brain, and the body's nervous
system it ever discussed and at what length.
Quote:There is not one Neurologist or one Neuroscience that agrees with this absolute bullshit.
You mean you have talked to them all, and all of them reject is both publicly and privately? Ohmy

Science investigates, religion interprets.

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31-01-2013, 07:15 PM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(31-01-2013 06:52 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(31-01-2013 06:43 PM)Scientia Wrote:  Yes, I had a concussion which is a brain injury. So it does prove that all brain injuries dose not result in mental impairment.

Again, you prove nothing. You have no objective measure of that.

Besides, the brain can compensate for small injuries.
No,now you are back peddling. You objected to my position that all brain injuries dose not equate to mental impairment. I had a concussion which is a brain injury. According to you and Fstratzero I should have signs of mental impairment. Like in the video he offered as proof to all brain injuries.

Science investigates, religion interprets.

I got my first like....[Image: weeping.gif] Thank you!
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