what if our current views are wrong?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
14-01-2013, 05:19 AM
what if our current views are wrong?
What if the views of what life and death is are wrong? What if the concepts of you, me, it are wrong?

current world views of life and death were mainly developed by religious organizations. You are born and god gave you a soul, you die and you go to heaven. With atheists this just leaves, you are born and you die. But that is still fundamental remnants of the old religious philosophy.

What if we aren't born? And what if we don't die?

Secondly the entire concept of individuality is based on religion principles. We all have different 'souls'.

But what if we're not separate? what if we're whole? Instead of going through the process of being born and dying, what if we ,the whole, were consistent?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-01-2013, 06:24 AM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(14-01-2013 05:19 AM)Nappa Wrote:  What if the views of what life and death is are wrong? What if the concepts of you, me, it are wrong?
Lets just run with this for a minute, see where it goes.


(14-01-2013 05:19 AM)Nappa Wrote:  current world views of life and death were mainly developed by religious organizations. You are born and god gave you a soul, you die and you go to heaven. With atheists this just leaves, you are born and you die. But that is still fundamental remnants of the old religious philosophy.


Noo, there is no atheist stance to which you seem to be implying. the only mandate of atheism is no god/s, many atheists believe in souls, reincarnation etc. What you stated is simply an observation of reality common to the rational side of things; We are born, and we die. It has nothing to do with religious philosophy, simply an observation.


(14-01-2013 05:19 AM)Nappa Wrote:  What if we aren't born? And what if we don't die?

Secondly the entire concept of individuality is based on religion principles. We all have different 'souls'.

It is fairly evident that humans and other creatures are born, from one process or another. And we do die. We can observe both actions. I can put a dying man in an EEG and we can watch the brain stop functioning. Just in the same way as we can observe insemination, development and ultimately the birth of a baby. A large percentage of women even feel giving birth, would you believe it? Shocking .

Individuality is evidenced just as easily, get ten random people off the street and hand them a standardised opinion poll they will all have varying opinions, simply the ten people themselves show they are individuals, unless you got ten complete clones (cloned perfectly right down the to memories and personality). People have had concepts of individuality ever since it was recognised that person X is not the same as person Z, religions simply monopolized an explanation as to the phenomenon, long before studies of the mind and brain emerged such as psychology and neurosciences.


(14-01-2013 05:19 AM)Nappa Wrote:  But what if we're not separate? what if we're whole? Instead of going through the process of being born and dying, what if we ,the whole, were consistent?

And what reason do you have to support that group of assumptions?

There appears to be no linking force between our brains, at least in the manner you seem to be speaking of.


Even if current models of life, death and individuality are incorrect, what do you suggest would be their replacement?

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Free Thought's post
14-01-2013, 07:47 AM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
I am fairly confident that in two hundred years from now, our ancestors will be in stitches over how little we know right now.

Hahaha, look at these fools going gaga over that primitive thing they called an ipad.... what idiots!

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like DLJ's post
14-01-2013, 08:04 AM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(14-01-2013 05:19 AM)Nappa Wrote:  But what if we're not separate? what if we're whole? Instead of going through the process of being born and dying, what if we ,the whole, were consistent?


You can look at us as whole - the whole of humanity. Once you are dead though, I doubt you will have any benefit from that concept.

[Image: dobie.png]

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-01-2013, 08:19 AM (This post was last modified: 14-01-2013 08:44 AM by Nappa.)
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(14-01-2013 06:24 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(14-01-2013 05:19 AM)Nappa Wrote:  What if the views of what life and death is are wrong? What if the concepts of you, me, it are wrong?
Lets just run with this for a minute, see where it goes.


It is fairly evident that humans and other creatures are born, from one process or another. And we do die. We can observe both actions. I can put a dying man in an EEG and we can watch the brain stop functioning. Just in the same way as we can observe insemination, development and ultimately the birth of a baby. A large percentage of women even feel giving birth, would you believe it? Shocking .

Individuality is evidenced just as easily, get ten random people off the street and hand them a standardised opinion poll they will all have varying opinions, simply the ten people themselves show they are individuals, unless you got ten complete clones (cloned perfectly right down the to memories and personality). People have had concepts of individuality ever since it was recognised that person X is not the same as person Z, religions simply monopolized an explanation as to the phenomenon, long before studies of the mind and brain emerged such as psychology and neurosciences.


And what reason do you have to support that group of assumptions?

There appears to be no linking force between our brains, at least in the manner you seem to be speaking of.


Even if current models of life, death and individuality are incorrect, what do you suggest would be their replacement?
Here you are speaking of physical bodies and personality, when I am still referring to consciousness. And I might be the only other person here who understands what EEG is without having to look it up.

As for all this, well this is just a practice of 'trying' to think outside what I 'know' Not gonna lie to you I'm having a hard time myself finding an alternative if there is one Tongue
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Nappa's post
14-01-2013, 09:03 AM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
All I know is that beer tastes good; sex feels great; food is wonderful; and life is a choice, not a requirement.

Everything else is irrelevant.

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
Ridi, Pagliaccio, sul tuo amore infranto! Ridi del duol, che t'avvelena il cor!
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 7 users Like Misanthropik's post
14-01-2013, 09:08 AM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(14-01-2013 08:19 AM)Nappa Wrote:  
(14-01-2013 06:24 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  Lets just run with this for a minute, see where it goes.


It is fairly evident that humans and other creatures are born, from one process or another. And we do die. We can observe both actions. I can put a dying man in an EEG and we can watch the brain stop functioning. Just in the same way as we can observe insemination, development and ultimately the birth of a baby. A large percentage of women even feel giving birth, would you believe it? Shocking .

Individuality is evidenced just as easily, get ten random people off the street and hand them a standardised opinion poll they will all have varying opinions, simply the ten people themselves show they are individuals, unless you got ten complete clones (cloned perfectly right down the to memories and personality). People have had concepts of individuality ever since it was recognised that person X is not the same as person Z, religions simply monopolized an explanation as to the phenomenon, long before studies of the mind and brain emerged such as psychology and neurosciences.


And what reason do you have to support that group of assumptions?

There appears to be no linking force between our brains, at least in the manner you seem to be speaking of.


Even if current models of life, death and individuality are incorrect, what do you suggest would be their replacement?
Here you are speaking of physical bodies and personality, when I am still referring to consciousness. And I might be the only other person here who understands what EEG is without having to look it up.

As for all this, well this is just a practice of 'trying' to think outside what I 'know' Not gonna lie to you I'm having a hard time myself finding an alternative if there is one Tongue


Well, if you do find an alternative, which is actually possible, please do tell.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-01-2013, 09:09 AM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(14-01-2013 09:03 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  All I know is that beer tastes good; sex feels great; food is wonderful; and life is a choice, not a requirement.

Everything else is irrelevant.
Can't argue with that logic.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Free Thought's post
14-01-2013, 09:16 AM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
People may die, but jam lives forever. There can be only one... jam on my toast! Big Grin We be jammin'!

[Image: 3d366d5c-72a0-4228-b835-f404c2970188_zps...1381867723]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-01-2013, 09:26 AM
RE: what if our current views are wrong?
(14-01-2013 05:19 AM)Nappa Wrote:  current world views of life and death were mainly developed by religious organizations. You are born and god gave you a soul, you die and you go to heaven. With atheists this just leaves, you are born and you die. But that is still fundamental remnants of the old religious philosophy.

What if we aren't born? And what if we don't die?
Secondly the entire concept of individuality is based on religion principles. We all have different 'souls'.

But what if we're not separate? what if we're whole? Instead of going through the process of being born and dying, what if we ,the whole, were consistent?

When you die the cells in your body die. Your organs deteriorate. Thus far consciousness (as far as we can see and test) is contingent on the brain. When your brain dies, your consciousness dies (as far as we can see and test).

What is a soul and how would you know it's a soul and how would you know if there were anything above and beyond simply dying.

I mean technically your matter gets reused by other things, round circle. The bugs and soil. So I guess in a way "you" if you define you as your matter, never really "go away" - but as far as consciousness, thus far we can see that it is contingent on your brain.

So what if we're wrong? We've been wrong about a lot of things. But until we have new information to show otherwise, postulation is still just postulation. Although, I will say that postulation generally leads to methods of learning new things since actually pursuing the postulation is what gets you there.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Logisch's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: