what if our current views are wrong?

[Vosur]

(18-01-2013 05:18 PM)amyb Wrote:  And since they're so fucking special, they also don't die when they die, instead, they live forever.

Indeed, though it doesn't stop there. I have yet to meet a religious or generally spiritual person who believed that he would end up spending an eternity in Hell.

[Chaos]

It is always good to keep an open mind. I am not very attached to my views.
What if? I don't believe in divine punishment, neither in a intentional 'sin', nature is following its own path.
I can't do anything about it.

[Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver]

(14-01-2013 05:19 AM)Nappa Wrote:  What if the views of what life and death is are wrong? What if the concepts of you, me, it are wrong?

current world views of life and death were mainly developed by religious organizations. You are born and god gave you a soul, you die and you go to heaven. With atheists this just leaves, you are born and you die. But that is still fundamental remnants of the old religious philosophy.

What if we aren't born? And what if we don't die?

Secondly the entire concept of individuality is based on religion principles. We all have different 'souls'.

But what if we're not separate? what if we're whole? Instead of going through the process of being born and dying, what if we ,the whole, were consistent?

What if?

What if the sun doesn't rise tomorrow?

What if Jimmy Cracks Corn and nobody really does care?

What if love really IS all you need?

What if?

[Kaloste]

If hell is real, I guess I'm burning. But hey, hell sounds like a party. Every single person who's died a doubter or nonbeliever in the Christian faith? Sounds like more of a super massive mosh to me.

[ClydeLee]

(23-01-2013 11:25 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  

(14-01-2013 05:19 AM)Nappa Wrote:  What if the views of what life and death is are wrong? What if the concepts of you, me, it are wrong?

current world views of life and death were mainly developed by religious organizations. You are born and god gave you a soul, you die and you go to heaven. With atheists this just leaves, you are born and you die. But that is still fundamental remnants of the old religious philosophy.

What if we aren't born? And what if we don't die?

Secondly the entire concept of individuality is based on religion principles. We all have different 'souls'.

But what if we're not separate? what if we're whole? Instead of going through the process of being born and dying, what if we ,the whole, were consistent?

What if?

What if the sun doesn't rise tomorrow?

What if Jimmy Cracks Corn and nobody really does care?

What if love really IS all you need?

What if?

Nobody really did cared enough... slavery ended

[Scientia]

(14-01-2013 05:19 AM)Nappa Wrote:  What if we aren't born? And what if we don't die?

The law of conservation of energy states that energy may neither be created nor destroyed.

Quote:The energy that is in the system may change in form, but this energy cannot be destroyed and additional energy can not be created in the system
from the initial energy involved.

http://conservationofenergy.net/

This means that the sum of all the energies in the system(soul) is a constant. As you know the universe, including us, is made up of energy, not matter. Plato wrote that energy, or the soul is separate (Dualism) from matter.

Quote:Plato’s theory of the Forms depicts the universe ashaving two different levels of reality: the physical realm and the realm of theForms. This is a type of matter-spirit dualism, where the material component of
the universe is the changing physical realm of appearances, and the spiritrealm is the unchanging realm of the Forms.

http://www.utm.edu/staff/jfieser/class/1...ssical.htm


Pure energy existed before man and other material things made of matter like the earth. I'm a big fan of Quantum physics, and it says that as you go deeper into the atom, you get to a point where there is nothing there but energy.
So in my opinion, we don't cease to exist, we just move on to another form of existence.

[Bucky Ball]

(14-01-2013 08:19 AM)Nappa Wrote:  

(14-01-2013 06:24 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  Here you are speaking of physical bodies and personality, when I am still referring to consciousness. And I might be the only other person here who understands what EEG is without having to look it up.

As for all this, well this is just a practice of 'trying' to think outside what I 'know' Not gonna lie to you I'm having a hard time myself finding an alternative if there is one

I assure you, you are not the only person here who understands EEG. Why would you think or say that ?
If what you're talking about is that the "big picture" is not about *individuals*, obviously that's what Evolution is all about, and many have discussed it before, here and many places. We don't even know for sure it's "about" what goes on in this universe ?

[Scientia]

(14-01-2013 08:19 AM)Nappa Wrote:  

(14-01-2013 06:24 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  And I might be the only other person here who understands what EEG is without having to look it up.

This is somewhat arrogant of you since most people people may have had an EKG. It's the same, one is for the brain, and the other is for the heart. I was an CNA and I did the "crash cart" and EKG's (6 lead and 12 lead) for a year or two. I'm using the jargon so you will know I worked in the field.

[Chas]

(31-01-2013 04:21 AM)Scientia Wrote:  

(14-01-2013 05:19 AM)Nappa Wrote:  What if we aren't born? And what if we don't die?

The law of conservation of energy states that energy may neither be created nor destroyed.

Quote:The energy that is in the system may change in form, but this energy cannot be destroyed and additional energy can not be created in the system
from the initial energy involved.

http://conservationofenergy.net/

This means that the sum of all the energies in the system(soul) is a constant. As you know the universe, including us, is made up of energy, not matter. Plato wrote that energy, or the soul is separate (Dualism) from matter.

Quote:Plato’s theory of the Forms depicts the universe ashaving two different levels of reality: the physical realm and the realm of theForms. This is a type of matter-spirit dualism, where the material component of
the universe is the changing physical realm of appearances, and the spiritrealm is the unchanging realm of the Forms.

http://www.utm.edu/staff/jfieser/class/1...ssical.htm


Pure energy existed before manand other material things made of matter like the earth. I'm a big fan of Quantum physics, and it says that as you go deeper into the atom, you get to a point where there is nothing there but energy.
So in my opinion, we don't cease to exist, we just move on to another form of existence.

A person is a complex pattern of matter. When that pattern no longer exists, there is no person left to go on to another form of existence.
We a re not quantum beings - that's the wrong scale.

[Scientia]

(31-01-2013 04:31 AM)Chas Wrote:  

(31-01-2013 04:21 AM)Scientia Wrote:  A person is a complex pattern of matter. When that pattern no longer
exists, there is no person left to go on to another form of existence.
We a re not quantum beings - that's the wrong scale.

True, but we are made up of atoms, and quantum mechanics deal with energy and matter on a very small scale. I'm talking about Metaphysics which deals with existence and consciousness.
A "person" I would say is the physical (matter) form our consciousness/soul take.