whayt if tommorow they proved therewas no free will
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16-07-2014, 06:24 PM
RE: whayt if tommorow they proved therewas no free will
(16-07-2014 06:13 PM)kunoxian drive Wrote:  
(16-07-2014 05:42 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Umm, sorry to have to break it to you.
It's already been debunked.

just a weird thought but without free will.. doesn't that means there would be no morales to judge people by

edit: because don't morales require objectivity... just cyurious

Actually, there aren't. There are people who lack empathy or their instincts are not functional or they have bad programming from childhood. I don't tend to blame people.

But - if they do harm, they need to be kept from doing it again.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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16-07-2014, 06:34 PM
RE: whayt if tommorow they proved therewas no free will
(16-07-2014 05:06 PM)kunoxian drive Wrote:  i don't understand how some one can not believe in free will.... unless you say that ots a half way kind of thing but then I've never studied the subject

edit:not believing in free will is paramount to believing in a mystical thing like destiny.... lol
Actually, lacking a belief in free will is paramount to lacking a belief in other things that also require belief e.g. gods, ghosts, fairies etc.
For free will to exist, you require a ghost in the machine. This ghost having the capability to be an uncaused cause, such that despite the state of energy and atoms and molecules within the brain/body, despite the natural forces acting on the energy and atoms and molecules, this ghost can choose what reactions are to occur, can choose whether electrical impulses are to be sent to muscles in order to make them contract, thus causing an action to occur.
My understanding is that the laws of physics dictate the path of an electron, that I can't influence this path merely by willing it to happen.
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16-07-2014, 06:39 PM
RE: whayt if tommorow they proved therewas no free will
though wouldn'rtyou be powerful if you could

1. Striding and swaggering rootlessness without end. The precious flow of life.
2. one should fear sweet a blood stained flower.
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16-07-2014, 07:55 PM
RE: whayt if tommorow they proved therewas no free will
(16-07-2014 06:39 PM)kunoxian drive Wrote:  though wouldn'rtyou be powerful if you could
Probably, yeah?
It would open up your world to:
-Mind reading
-Telekinesis
-Possessing (taking control of) other animal's bodies, including other humans

But very tellingly we only seem to be able to control our own bodies via physical messages from our physical brain. I don't think this is just a coincidence.
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16-07-2014, 08:01 PM
RE: whayt if tommorow they proved therewas no free will
It wouldn't change anything at all.


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17-07-2014, 09:07 AM
RE: whayt if tommorow they proved therewas no free will
Okay, this might be silly, but...

...what about when we make changes to our behavior? When yes, whatever we are feeling would dictate to us to act or react in a certain manner, but we choose to do differently? How is something like that not indicative of free will? Or, worded another way, how would that fit into a scenario where free will is an illusion?

(EA always gets hella nervous when posting in the serious sections Blush )

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17-07-2014, 09:20 AM
RE: whayt if tommorow they proved therewas no free will
(16-07-2014 05:06 PM)kunoxian drive Wrote:  i don't understand how some one can not believe in free will.... unless you say that ots a half way kind of thing but then I've never studied the subject

edit:not believing in free will is paramount to believing in a mystical thing like destiny.... lol


Ask yourself, what is your will free from?
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17-07-2014, 09:24 AM
RE: whayt if tommorow they proved therewas no free will
(16-07-2014 06:13 PM)kunoxian drive Wrote:  just a weird thought but without free will.. doesn't that means there would be no morales to judge people by

edit: because don't morales require objectivity... just cyurious

You could better argue that if free will existed then there wouldn't be a morality to judge people by.

I don't have it in me to go out and randomly kill an innocent person for example. If I truly had free will then I could.
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17-07-2014, 03:47 PM
RE: whayt if tommorow they proved therewas no free will
(17-07-2014 09:24 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(16-07-2014 06:13 PM)kunoxian drive Wrote:  just a weird thought but without free will.. doesn't that means there would be no morales to judge people by

edit: because don't morales require objectivity... just cyurious

You could better argue that if free will existed then there wouldn't be a morality to judge people by.

I don't have it in me to go out and randomly kill an innocent person for example. If I truly had free will then I could.
I don't know why people insist on having presuppositions of morals and the need for moral judgement.
In my opinion we are best to leave moral judgements upto the gods.
Us humans can't really know what is objectively moral or not. We can't know if a person is Good or Bad. Why would we feel that it is our place to enforce a moral standard and make moral judgements of others?
We have a legal system so that society can function. We lock people up if they present a danger to society, we apply fines as deterrents from behaviours which are detrimental to society.

It really isn't our place to sort people into good and bad groups and lock up the bad people. If a "bad" person isn't presenting a danger to society, then leave them be.
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17-07-2014, 04:44 PM
RE: whayt if tommorow they proved therewas no free will
(17-07-2014 09:07 AM)Escape Artist Wrote:  Okay, this might be silly, but...

...what about when we make changes to our behavior? When yes, whatever we are feeling would dictate to us to act or react in a certain manner, but we choose to do differently? How is something like that not indicative of free will? Or, worded another way, how would that fit into a scenario where free will is an illusion?

(EA always gets hella nervous when posting in the serious sections Blush )

Your brain has been registering bad results from previous behaviors for too long. If none of your other conditioning, both from evolution (your hardware, the collective experiences of your ancestors) and experience (your software, experiences registered during this life), is strong enough to prevent change, you will change. If either your hardware or your software conflicts with the change, it will not happen.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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