why do they think they own morality?
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23-02-2017, 07:50 AM
RE: why do they think they own morality?
Organized monotheistic religion is very good at hijacking something that already exists, no thanks to it whatsoever, and pretending to be its inventor and protector. Next, they claim that without the sustaining religion, this thing will vanish. Any threat or issue with the thing, and they point to the insidious and nefarious influences in secular society, ironically the very thing that gave rise to it in the first place.

When it comes to morality specifically, they can't stand that there are people of different (or no) faith who are very good exemplars of ethical, moral conduct, who are kind and good, etc. They always have to twist things around to cast those among their religion who are good actors as virtuous only because of their faith and all good actors outside their religion as clever pretenders with hidden agendas.

Those of the authoritarian Abrahamic faiths (and to a sometimes lesser extent, all theists) MUST own morality because it must be imposed on all to forestall the wrath of god and, not incidentally, to prop up the value proposition of the faith itself.
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23-02-2017, 03:09 PM (This post was last modified: 23-02-2017 03:13 PM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: why do they think they own morality?
Why do theists think they own morality? Unbelievers wouldn't deserve an eternity in hell otherwise. Evil_monster
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23-02-2017, 05:18 PM
RE: why do they think they own morality?
(23-02-2017 03:09 PM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  Unbelievers wouldn't deserve an eternity in hell otherwise. Evil_monster

You know, I really can't imagine what I did to irritate them so badly.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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23-02-2017, 05:42 PM
RE: why do they think they own morality?
(22-02-2017 09:42 PM)seagull Wrote:  ok so I'm pretty fed up with christians (ESPECIALLY catholics) thinking they get to define what's moral and what isn't
last semester in my ethics class there was heavy emphasis on the christian view's objections to abortion, euthanasia, and PAS
my first thought is 'who cares?'
there's so much talk about the pope and what he believes is right and it seems like christians think their views are the absolute moral standard
there's constant reinforcement of the objectability of things from the christian viewpoint
honestly i don't think moral decisions should come from what christianity deems as ok
centuries ago the church was ok with the killing of people suspected of practicing witchcraft or of being possessed by demons. the salem witch trials resulted from religion
the church is ok with its message being viciously spread everywhere and enforced on people.the crusades were fueled by the church and caused great casualty.
today the church still thinks it's the authority over what's right and wrong but given its track record, i don't trust it

It is arbitrary, ignorant and arrogant if Christians think of themselves as the only ones to define morality. They need to recognise that Christianity is categorically a religion and not universal. They need to realise that Christianity has had a history of development, progression and has origins somewhere long ago - these need attention and are worth investigating. Because Pope has an enormous authority over the entire world of churches, it becomes very difficult to subvert or convince the masses as an ordinary atheist and correct their thinking.

I think that one of the ways to convince the masses and correct their thinking is to contact the pope and claim his authority as a new atheist leader worldwide.

Seagull, what are you going to do about it? Do something that is actionable rather than venting out on the forum, depending on what your circumstances are.
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23-02-2017, 06:37 PM
RE: why do they think they own morality?
(23-02-2017 05:18 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(23-02-2017 03:09 PM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  Unbelievers wouldn't deserve an eternity in hell otherwise. Evil_monster

You know, I really can't imagine what I did to irritate them so badly.

You started living your life without a security blanket and they have to either live up to your example or tear you down.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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23-02-2017, 09:30 PM
RE: why do they think they own morality?
Even the pope has had it with the moral superiority myth of religion. Today he excoriated catholics who lead "double lives" of regular church attendance while exploiting people and running dirty businesses.

He said, "But to be a catholic like that, it's better to be an atheist."
Yeah, Frankie, we've know that for a very long time. Facepalm

Maybe he finally got a look at the redacted sections of the Vatican ledgers. Tongue

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/23/world/pope...sts-again/
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24-02-2017, 12:40 AM
RE: why do they think they own morality?
If I felt there was any truth to any of the religious stuff, I would find the pope the most offensive person on the planet. It's already bad enough when many theists presume to speak for God, but someone actually having it as their job is beyond disgusting.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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24-02-2017, 04:33 AM
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(24-02-2017 12:40 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  If I felt there was any truth to any of the religious stuff, I would find the pope the most offensive person on the planet. It's already bad enough when many theists presume to speak for God, but someone actually having it as their job is beyond disgusting.

Do you mean you don't believe the pope is infallible? Ohmy I'm shocked I tell you, shocked. Big Grin
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24-02-2017, 06:45 AM
RE: why do they think they own morality?
The only papal infallibility he has is online payment protection...




I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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24-02-2017, 09:24 AM
RE: why do they think they own morality?
(22-02-2017 09:42 PM)seagull Wrote:  ok so I'm pretty fed up with christians (ESPECIALLY catholics) thinking they get to define what's moral and what isn't
last semester in my ethics class there was heavy emphasis on the christian view's objections to abortion, euthanasia, and PAS
my first thought is 'who cares?'
there's so much talk about the pope and what he believes is right and it seems like christians think their views are the absolute moral standard
there's constant reinforcement of the objectability of things from the christian viewpoint
honestly i don't think moral decisions should come from what christianity deems as ok
centuries ago the church was ok with the killing of people suspected of practicing witchcraft or of being possessed by demons. the salem witch trials resulted from religion
the church is ok with its message being viciously spread everywhere and enforced on people.the crusades were fueled by the church and caused great casualty.
today the church still thinks it's the authority over what's right and wrong but given its track record, i don't trust it

Because they don't understand what morality is. They think it is metaphysical rather than conceptual in nature. They don't understand objectivity either. This is proved by the fact that their objective basis of morality, a god, assumes the primacy of consciousness view of reality. Therefore they base objectivity in subjectivism, a clear contradiction. They've gotten away with it for so long because no one ever came forward with an objective theory of ethics until the 20th century and the old view of morality is so entrenched that the new theory hasn't been discovered by many yet.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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