why is male suicide going up?
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23-04-2016, 04:58 AM
RE: why is male suicide going up?
(23-04-2016 04:52 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-04-2016 03:55 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Maybe in the U.S, but as I said it has become the leading cause of death in young males in the U.K
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/male-suicide-sc...th-1493340
Still either way, both are terrible.

From that article:
"The male:female suicide rate differential was 1.7:1 in 1983 and steadily rose over the subsequent 30 years,
reaching 3.5:1 in 2013. The prime reason was a steep decline in the number of women committing suicide."

I have yet to see any strong evidence to support your contention.

My goal was to show the raise in male suicides, anything else are somebody else's reasons.

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23-04-2016, 05:34 AM
RE: why is male suicide going up?
(23-04-2016 04:58 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(23-04-2016 04:52 AM)Chas Wrote:  From that article:
"The male:female suicide rate differential was 1.7:1 in 1983 and steadily rose over the subsequent 30 years,
reaching 3.5:1 in 2013. The prime reason was a steep decline in the number of women committing suicide."

I have yet to see any strong evidence to support your contention.

My goal was to show the raise in male suicides, anything else are somebody else's reasons.

He's pointing out that your citation doesn't necessarily support your claim that male suicide in the UK is rising; only that female suicide is decreasing.
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23-04-2016, 05:36 AM
RE: why is male suicide going up?
(23-04-2016 05:34 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  
(23-04-2016 04:58 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  My goal was to show the raise in male suicides, anything else are somebody else's reasons.

He's pointing out that your citation doesn't necessarily support your claim that male suicide in the UK is rising; only that female suicide is decreasing.

I see, sorry.

This should be better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in...ed_Kingdom

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23-04-2016, 06:25 AM
RE: why is male suicide going up?
(22-04-2016 09:42 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(22-04-2016 07:29 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  Could be.

I was actually thinking, "Why is male suicide rising?.... the same reason male mass killings are rising." I say a some of it is because some men can't get laid because more women are either not interested in men or not interested in lame men and that turns into misogyny. That's also what they say causes rape a lot too.


Just to clarify, my joke was aimed more at couples in a relationship who drive each other nuts. In other words, all of them. Big Grin

Nice-Guy-Syndrome, misogyny and crimes against women is definitely something that should be addressed by our society. It's a volatile subject, but an important one.

Yes, I know. I was just extrapolating on that. This thread did not specify suicides only and many suicides are murder/suicides when it comes to men, whether it's a mass shooting or a more personal killing of their family or their SO's family and then themselves. I can't recall ever having heard of a woman killing a bunch of her family members before offing herself. Not saying it's never happened but that's not the usual scenario. So men having issues with women is a valid reason, not the only reason but certainly a significant one.

People who act out in violent ways pick on the vulnerable, men target women (and children as well), women target children because that's who they can successfully bully with less risk to themselves and they normally have the most caregiver responsibilities which means the most childrearing stressors.

Again, your answer was partly right. Women can be and are the surface reason or more pointedly they can be the source of stress to a man who is not dealing well with stresses. Ultimately, most suicides fall into a "mental health issue" whatever the outward reason, the root cause is mental unwellness.

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23-04-2016, 06:39 AM
RE: why is male suicide going up?
What crap....

The rate is going up because more guys are killing themselves..............

....

Sometime soon -- it'll go down, because less guys are killing themselves........

....

Oh -- you want the REASON??


If you think that there's ONE reason all them guys are killing themselves (or not) -- you're just a bit delusional.................

........

Anytime you're dealing with statistics - things happen in cycles -- they're either going up - or going down.......................

The only way a steady rate of suicide could be, is if everybody was already dead - then nobody could kill themselves...........

You can't look for A reason for a group.... For ONE person - maybe --- but not a group.

.......................................

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23-04-2016, 06:43 AM
RE: why is male suicide going up?
(22-04-2016 10:37 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(22-04-2016 09:28 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  Yes but you're not the lame-o (thx gil) douchebag the killer in Cali was who left a women hating/blaming manifesto before he killed those people and then himself. And I haven't even started on the "entitled white bread young man" majority of killer/suicides as well as just suicides. Young white guys are having a hard time dealing with lack of entitlement fulfillment issues.

You otoh do not seem to have that nor are you a social pariah.

As a young white man I can say no, generalizing young white guys having these issues of lack of entitlement is wrong. Any who lash out because of it, is most likely caused by another underlying issue like mental health issues.


Also 50 year old black man just shot and killed 5 people in Georgia so there's that.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/04/23/fiv...large.html

I don't think so. The majority of suicides, murder/suicides and mass shootings/suicides are young white men. How is that not relevant? Many of them, as we have heard after the fact, had entitlement issues, mommy issues, women issues that were also related to their entitlement issues, so how is that not relevant? That all of those things are also mental health issues is not a coincidence it's relative to the problem as a whole. I don't believe there a single factor in all this, it's complex and any and all factors and sub factors are reasonable to discuss. I never claimed they were the only factor.

Yes, some black guys do this as well but the overwhelming majority is young white guys. I think the category of "suicides" (anyone who kills themselves regardless of what happens just prior to the actual suicide) is pretty big, maybe it should've been specified it to a single individual killing himself, for ease of discussion. There are lots of sub categories for suicide. Again, they're all relevant, imo.

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23-04-2016, 06:48 AM
why is male suicide going up?
(22-04-2016 10:07 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(22-04-2016 10:01 PM)KUSA Wrote:  What does it matter? Everyone is going to die. Some people like to choose the time and place.

Even as a nihilist i can recognize the worth of a life not fully lived, and subsequently the loss that comes with a life taken too early. It doesn't matter to you, it doesn't matter to me unless i know the person, but to those close to them and in any way relying on them it matters in a lot of ways. Empathy is not your strong suit is it?


So if nobody is close to the person, it is alright?
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23-04-2016, 06:50 AM
RE: why is male suicide going up?
(22-04-2016 10:07 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(22-04-2016 10:01 PM)KUSA Wrote:  What does it matter? Everyone is going to die. Some people like to choose the time and place.

Even as a nihilist i can recognize the worth of a life not fully lived, and subsequently the loss that comes with a life taken too early. It doesn't matter to you, it doesn't matter to me unless i know the person, but to those close to them and in any way relying on them it matters in a lot of ways. Empathy is not your strong suit is it?

What exactly is the worth of a life not fully lived?

And to whom?

Obviously the person who committed suicide didn't see a value.

Is the suffering person supposed to have enough empathy with the survivors to choose suffering for them?

Who needs empathy here?

But mostly I would like to know what exactly the worth of said life is.

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23-04-2016, 06:50 AM
RE: why is male suicide going up?
(23-04-2016 12:00 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  
(22-04-2016 10:28 PM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  Question: Why are you bringing up male perpetuated murder in a thread made about male suicide?

Although it's interesting the reason why you think men commit suicide more, and why they murder more. It's like you can't even fathom that not everything men do has to do with your sex. Ayy you wanna' talk about entitlement lol.

Continuation:

Anytime a discussion specific to one sex occurs, I find it interesting to compare it to either an actual discussion that is the same, only specific to the other sex, or to imagine a hypothetical where that is the case. Imagine this hypothetical: The same thread as this appears, only concerning females rather than males. A user, in response, chimes in with this:

"I was actually thinking, "Why is female suicide rising?.... the same reason female child abuse is rising." I say a some of it is because some females can't get laid because more men are either not interested in females or not interested in lame females and that turns into misandry. That's also what they say causes child abuse a lot too.

Double edge sword, "You won't fuck me because I'm lame, so I'll hate you for it and then abuse a child. Funny how that works. Now more suicides on the rise. At least they're killing themselves and not hurting kids

I wonder how many of those same females spend their time enjoying their hating on men rather than learning to not abuse children?

This also applies to men, except for the child abusing bit. Men are less likely to abuse children for revenge."

(And it is a fact that mothers and women abuse children in the US more than fathers and men:
http://www.americanhumane.org/children/s...stics.html

^ These guys get their data from the child maltreatment report, of the children's bureau. It's not some sloppy biased college survey that feminists cite.)

So, someone chimes in with that. The factual parts are irrelevant; the conjecture is especially irrelevant, and downright rude, given the context of the topic; all in all obviously posted as a distraction to the intended topic. What kind of response would this forums user-base give to that? It'd look like this:
The poster would get dogpiled. Their intentions would be questioned. It'd be concluded that they posted it because they're an misogynist, so insecure that they can't handle any focus on womens issues. And this, I'd say, would be a reasonable evaluation of this poster, at that time.

...

Then, maybe male suicide is much higher, in part, because of the double standard society has concerning the sexes. Because the reaction that this hypothetical post would without a doubt - and rightfully so - garner, when slightly altered to reverse sexes, didn't. I recommend reading on the 'women are wonderful effect' ( < Wikipedia entry) for further understanding of this double standard.

(BTW, I so hate personal squabbles that take over threads. This post has everything to do with tying in what I see as a general double standard that exists prettymuch everywhere, relevantly to the topic of male suicide. This is not an attempt to make a back-and-forth out of things with a certain poster.)

Quote:"I was actually thinking, "Why is female suicide rising?.... the same reason female child abuse is rising." I say a some of it is because some females can't get laid because more men are either not interested in females or not interested in lame females and that turns into misandry. That's also what they say causes child abuse a lot too.

Double edge sword, "You won't fuck me because I'm lame, so I'll hate you for it and then abuse a child. Funny how that works. Now more suicides on the rise. At least they're killing themselves and not hurting kids

I wonder how many of those same females spend their time enjoying their hating on men rather than learning to not abuse children?

This also applies to men, except for the child abusing bit. Men are less likely to abuse children for revenge."

I would not disagree with this, it could be and is true for some.

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23-04-2016, 07:09 AM
RE: why is male suicide going up?
(23-04-2016 06:25 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  Yes, I know. I was just extrapolating on that. This thread did not specify suicides only and many suicides are murder/suicides when it comes to men, whether it's a mass shooting or a more personal killing of their family or their SO's family and then themselves. I can't recall ever having heard of a woman killing a bunch of her family members before offing herself. Not saying it's never happened but that's not the usual scenario. So men having issues with women is a valid reason, not the only reason but certainly a significant one.

That is because men are just way more violent than women. Thanks to natural selection humans males, like all other male apes, have a violent part of him. Now some men are smart, some put it into things like sports or video games, while other men do what you just mentioned. Now this is not to say there are not women as violent as men, but they are pretty much the exception to the rule. This is why you don't see women shooting up schools, because women are not as violent(and even if they are, women are smarter so they know how to hide it better). Add to the fact that men suck at communicating when comparing them to women and the fact they are more emotional, they will be driven to do dumb things. In short, men are on average, more violent and crazy than women.

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