why is male suicide going up?
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23-04-2016, 07:10 AM
RE: why is male suicide going up?
(22-04-2016 09:28 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  And I haven't even started on the "entitled white bread young man" majority of killer/suicides as well as just suicides. Young white guys are having a hard time dealing with lack of entitlement fulfillment issues.

I genuinely don't have a clue what this means. Please, go on. I would like to know why you thing that young white guys, such as myself, are having a difficult time dealing with "entitlement fulfillment" issues - whatever that is.

Fulfilling my entitlement aspirations? Being entitled to fulfill my unrealistic aspirations?

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23-04-2016, 07:11 AM
RE: why is male suicide going up?
(23-04-2016 06:43 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  I don't think so. The majority of suicides, murder/suicides and mass shootings/suicides are young white men.

The first claim - that the majority of suicides are committed by white men is true. The second two claims need citations.

Quote:Many of them, as we have heard after the fact, had entitlement issues, mommy issues, women issues that were also related to their entitlement issues

In the US, out of all white male suicides that were also murders, how many do you know to fit that description? Compare that number to the total white murder-suicides that occured inbetween the time your given examples occured. Guaranteed the number you give is less than 1% of the total. Is that 'many', really?
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23-04-2016, 07:32 AM
RE: why is male suicide going up?
First world problem: The interesting conversations for which I feel I have something relevant to contribute tend to happen when I'm too busy to type more than a sentence or two at a time Tongue

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23-04-2016, 08:00 AM
RE: why is male suicide going up?
(23-04-2016 06:48 AM)KUSA Wrote:  So if nobody is close to the person, it is alright?

I don't see why it wouldn't be. Drinking Beverage

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

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23-04-2016, 08:11 AM
RE: why is male suicide going up?
(23-04-2016 06:50 AM)Dom Wrote:  What exactly is the worth of a life not fully lived?

And to whom?

Obviously the person who committed suicide didn't see a value.

Is the suffering person supposed to have enough empathy with the survivors to choose suffering for them?

Who needs empathy here?

But mostly I would like to know what exactly the worth of said life is.

I'm talking about the tragedy that occurs when someone chooses a permanent solution to temporary problems. There are far too many different circumstances and way too much nuance to be able to address your questions in any meaningful way.

Dom, I don't think I've ever disagreed with you on any stance regarding an individual's right to choose their own fate. I'm simply saying that it's not always the right choice, and for many different reasons.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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23-04-2016, 08:14 AM
RE: why is male suicide going up?
(23-04-2016 04:47 AM)Chas Wrote:  Your description is hauntingly familiar. I suggest you seriously consider not drinking alcohol.

Duly noted. It is a daily consideration, among others...

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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23-04-2016, 08:55 AM
RE: why is male suicide going up?
(23-04-2016 08:11 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(23-04-2016 06:50 AM)Dom Wrote:  What exactly is the worth of a life not fully lived?

And to whom?

Obviously the person who committed suicide didn't see a value.

Is the suffering person supposed to have enough empathy with the survivors to choose suffering for them?

Who needs empathy here?

But mostly I would like to know what exactly the worth of said life is.

I'm talking about the tragedy that occurs when someone chooses a permanent solution to temporary problems. There are far too many different circumstances and way too much nuance to be able to address your questions in any meaningful way.

Dom, I don't think I've ever disagreed with you on any stance regarding an individual's right to choose their own fate. I'm simply saying that it's not always the right choice, and for many different reasons.

Ok. It has just been something on my mind anyway. I don't get the concept of the "sanctity of life", I don't get why people are so upset when someone chooses to exit (other than their own grief).

I mean, dead is dead, when you are dead you are not missing anything. It is the survivors who are missing something. The departed decided that life (for them) did not have value, it wasn't worth the struggle.

Suicidal people are blamed for being selfish, criminalized, ostracized by their church buddies and it is automatically assumed that they must be irrational or depressed.

That doesn't exactly make life more attractive....

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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23-04-2016, 09:32 AM
RE: why is male suicide going up?
(23-04-2016 06:43 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  
(22-04-2016 10:37 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  As a young white man I can say no, generalizing young white guys having these issues of lack of entitlement is wrong. Any who lash out because of it, is most likely caused by another underlying issue like mental health issues.


Also 50 year old black man just shot and killed 5 people in Georgia so there's that.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/04/23/fiv...large.html

I don't think so. The majority of suicides, murder/suicides and mass shootings/suicides are young white men. How is that not relevant? Many of them, as we have heard after the fact, had entitlement issues, mommy issues, women issues that were also related to their entitlement issues, so how is that not relevant? That all of those things are also mental health issues is not a coincidence it's relative to the problem as a whole. I don't believe there a single factor in all this, it's complex and any and all factors and sub factors are reasonable to discuss. I never claimed they were the only factor.

Yes, some black guys do this as well but the overwhelming majority is young white guys. I think the category of "suicides" (anyone who kills themselves regardless of what happens just prior to the actual suicide) is pretty big, maybe it should've been specified it to a single individual killing himself, for ease of discussion. There are lots of sub categories for suicide. Again, they're all relevant, imo.


You mentioned Elliot Rodger. I think this article sums it up well.

http://time.com/114354/elliot-rodger-ucsb-misogyny/

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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23-04-2016, 09:52 AM
why is male suicide going up?
(23-04-2016 08:11 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  I'm talking about the tragedy that occurs when someone chooses a permanent solution to temporary problems.

Life and it's struggles are not a temporary problem. It goes on until it ends or is ended by choice.
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23-04-2016, 10:22 AM
RE: why is male suicide going up?
(23-04-2016 09:52 AM)KUSA Wrote:  Life and it's struggles are not a temporary problem. It goes on until it ends or is ended by choice.

That's not the way I would word it, but I suppose it's all in how one chooses to look at things. You're right, not everyone is cut out for life. I think it's a waste of a potential good time, but if that's the way you're going to view life then you might as well fuck off and end it. (I don't mean you personally of course, I'm talking about the proverbial "you")

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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