why people believe in god
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27-04-2010, 08:12 AM
 
RE: why people believe in god
No, I never went so far as to suggest such a thing. If we are to consider such an event as worthy of admission, then we may just as well broaden our horizon to include such a wide range as to find grounds to admit the general populace on a day to day basis. I had a bad dream, I daydreamed something just right, I had a highly poetic experience, I was drugged and saw something strange. All of these things and more, may be taken as grounds for a religious experience, if one allows it. Were they though? Obviously not in the way that I portrayed them; I think it would be wiser to take an approach to such matters, in the same manner as that of sexual education. Abstinence has never had a good track record; on the other hand, educating about the body has. It helps to eliminate pseudoscience and alternatives that make little sense from the possible conclusions one may draw.
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27-04-2010, 08:24 AM
 
RE: why people believe in god
yes but that very education will rob people of the ability to accept a experience as religious. remember my bit about foucault, he said our view of ourselfves is limited to views societie's institutions allow us. social sciences and schools will spread the view that religious experiences are perhaps temporal epilepsy seizures. so they will disgard everything under that denominator.

people like to catogorize things, how they do it depends on society. and this might disallow a box for religious experience in the future.

ps i wasnt implying i was asking that previous statement.
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27-04-2010, 08:28 AM
 
RE: why people believe in god
I think the religious will be religious until they come to their own realization that none of it is true. I don't think medical treatment will help any.

In reality, it is the education of our children that will help move humanity away from belief in supernatural phenomenon. Teaching our children how to apply logic, rationality, and reason to the world will breed more skeptics than simply 'pushing' them to see things your way.
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27-04-2010, 08:36 AM
 
RE: why people believe in god
"people like to categorize things, how they do it depends on society. and this might disallow a box for religious experience in the future."

Would you argue that the experience that they had, was in fact a legitimate 'religious' experience? On the other hand, I wholeheartedly agree that it certainly was an interesting experience.
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27-04-2010, 09:43 AM
 
RE: why people believe in god
i might be persuaded to argue simply because i love to argue. if i knew what you where talking about. i assume the people featured in that article i copy pasted. and with what do you agree.

for future reference i can argue about whatever i feel like. i do not need to believe it. i just need enough arguments to make it somewhat credible and a clear idea what it is. trinity for instance is a lost cause for me
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27-04-2010, 09:57 AM
 
RE: why people believe in god
No worries, I too can argue purely for the sake of argument, though you do appear to be more articulate in your pursuit of said arguments.

I was questioning if you were agreeing that the experience that the individuals had, was in fact a real 'religious' experience.

What I agreed to, was that what they experienced, was simply an interesting experience, nothing more, nothing less. It just depended on what they made of it.

Actually I'm making a very slow point with the trinity concept on the other thread.
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27-04-2010, 10:29 AM
 
RE: why people believe in god
yeah i saw trinity there and thought i aint gonna burn my hands on that. got no clue how to handle it. no arguments or a idea of what it is.

and purely in my opinion i dont think they had a real religious experience but i could still say something in their defence if i wanted to. but here(this site) its become more of a necessity, martin is seriously outgunned. but i dont feel like it right now, maybe later.
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27-04-2010, 10:31 AM
 
RE: why people believe in god
No worries.

The point that I was drawing towards with the trinity is this: what happens when you have a trinity, and a holy virgin, and a devil, and arch angels, and lesser angels, and saints, and demon princes, and arch demons, and lesser demons in your theology? It becomes polytheistic in nature.
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27-04-2010, 06:20 PM
 
RE: why people believe in god
I think to understand why people believe in god you have to first define what 'god' means to the individual.

Is it a father figure? A friend? None of these, but a prime mover in the universe?

It is from this, then, that you can define

Quote:I had a bad dream, I daydreamed something just right, I had a highly poetic experience, I was drugged and saw something strange. All of these things and more, may be taken as grounds for a religious experience, if one allows it.

These are all elements of our psyche, things that we can't explain because we haven't learned HOW to explain them. We are experimenting, searching...how does our brain work? Why do we hallucinate? What is it about our blind spot that makes us hallucinate to compensate for the lousy setup of our eyes?

I had a discussion with a Muslim friend of mine today. We started to talk about free will, but quickly transitioned into a discussion about morality. Her take, as with most believers, is that god is the fear that makes you stay in line...that believing in an authoritative figure watching your every move will keep you in line. I was saddened by her remarks, moreso because she is young and is so convinced of this. As a segue into the topic above, she talked about how her decisions in life (the big decisions, not the every day 'what should I have for breakfast'-type decision) are influenced by the voice in her head (god).

I explained to her that, in my point of view, that 'voice' is your own reasoning. That there is no reason to think something invisible is there guiding you, telling you what decision is the right one. It is all in your head.

How do you argue a person's personal experience? Relate it to one of yours, which doesn't include any supernatural element.
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27-04-2010, 06:41 PM
 
RE: why people believe in god
"Her take, as with most believers, is that god is the fear that makes you stay in line...that believing in an authoritative figure watching your every move will keep you in line."

I always have a compulsive urge to leave the vicinity of someone who says something like this. The only reason that you're not killing the person you don't like is because your scared of a punishment. o_O
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