why would a deity need to take attendance ?
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19-04-2016, 09:42 AM (This post was last modified: 19-04-2016 09:45 AM by Commonsensei.)
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(18-04-2016 05:32 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-04-2016 03:10 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  However during there time they would have thought there would have been 11 planets.
Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Vesta, Juno, Ceres, Pallas, Jupiter, Saturn & Uranus.

I rather doubt that. Only Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn are visible to the naked eye.

Quote:During this time astronomers called any cluster of light in the sky a planet. If she could provide a document predating 1846 from here profits, that talked about Neptune or even the astrode belt that would be something.

They did not think of Earth as a planet.


Vesta is the second most massive body in the asteroid belt. It on occasion can been visible from earth. Discovered in 1596 Johannes Kepler came to believe that a planet existed between Mars and Jupiter.
http://www.space.com/12097-vesta-asteroi...ystem.html

Juno
was discovered in 1804 By Karl Ludwig Harding how originaly considered it to be a planet, it was reclassified as a asteroid in 1850.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_Juno

Ceres discovered in 1801 by astronomer Father Giuseppe Piazzi. It was also the first orbital body to be classified as an Astroid.
http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/ceres/indepth

Pallas the second asteroid to ever be discovered. But in 1802 Heinrich Willhelm Matthaus Olbers counted it as a finding of a new planet. It wasn't until 1845 did they discovered it was an asteroid.

[Image: herschel7ft.jpg]
This is a William Herschel 7-ft Reflecting Telescope. Created in 1773. Herschel continued developing larger more developed telescopes .
iThis was a drawing of his 40ft reflecting telescope.
[Image: herschel40fta.jpg]

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20-04-2016, 09:05 AM
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(18-04-2016 11:38 PM)Skittles Wrote:  I'm sorry you felt the need to explain how you know the bible isn't perfect. I can't stress enough that I agree with you that the bible has errors.
We agree because we both know that it is the truth(fact).
(18-04-2016 11:38 PM)Skittles Wrote:  My statement was, "I don't believe the bible to be the word of any god (anymore) so I'm completely open to hearing your side of what the bible means to you and how high it is on the "truthful meter," in your own opinion, of course."
I find some truth in the Bible. The most important truth is that Jesus Christ atoned for us and that He was resurrected. There is no more important truth than that.
It all that matters.
(18-04-2016 11:38 PM)Skittles Wrote:  That's when you gave a quote from Joseph Smith. It didn't really answer the question, but implied you believed what this guy named Joseph Smith said because that's what you referenced.

Shall we try again? Smile

Cheers
I believe in God, I believe that Joseph Smith is Prophet of this God. That is why I believe that he had gift to write new scriptures like Book of Mormon and he had gift to correct mistakes that are found in the Bible.
I believe that God can teach His prophets in 5 min what many LEARNED men won't be able to figure out in their whole life.
Note: this is my conviction and I respect your convictions. Thumbsup
Cheers

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20-04-2016, 01:39 PM
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(20-04-2016 09:05 AM)Alla Wrote:  I believe that God can teach His prophets in 5 min what many LEARNED men won't be able to figure out in their whole life.

Mainly because learned men don't truck with fairy tales.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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20-04-2016, 01:45 PM
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(20-04-2016 09:05 AM)Alla Wrote:  I find some truth in the Bible. The most important truth is that Jesus Christ atoned for us and that He was resurrected. There is no more important truth than that.
It all that matters.
There's no evidence supporting the errant bible's claim that a very special, one of a kind event happened where a dead guy came back to life.

No evidence supporting the bible's claim that people need atoning, no evidence supporting the claim that a blood sacrifice atones for anything.

(20-04-2016 09:05 AM)Alla Wrote:  I believe in God,
Yeah, but, even if this god does actually exist, you ignore it/him/her. Instead you use your own imagination to consider, what would god want me to do, what would god think, what would god's position be on this.
It is actually YOU coming up with the answers. Your god IS you.

(20-04-2016 09:05 AM)Alla Wrote:  I believe that Joseph Smith is Prophet of this God.
Because a claim that a guy stuck his face in a hat with magical stones and then could have all the answers is totally believable.
Not a one off special unprovable event, right?

(20-04-2016 09:05 AM)Alla Wrote:  Note: this is my conviction and I respect your convictions. Thumbsup
I understand this is your belief, your epistemology.
I don't respect it, it's nuts. But hey, you're entitled to have a floppy mind.
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20-04-2016, 01:49 PM
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(20-04-2016 01:39 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(20-04-2016 09:05 AM)Alla Wrote:  I believe that God can teach His prophets in 5 min what many LEARNED men won't be able to figure out in their whole life.

Mainly because learned men don't truck with fairy tales.
It takes scientists months and years of dedicated work to define hypothesis, test them, challenge them, gather data, analyses data, and to discover "truth".

But for beliefs, you don't need to go through all that, just make up your mind and choose to believe it. Doesn't matter what evidence says. No pesky time taken to prove or challenge anything.
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20-04-2016, 01:56 PM
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(20-04-2016 01:49 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(20-04-2016 01:39 PM)morondog Wrote:  Mainly because learned men don't truck with fairy tales.
It takes scientists months and years of dedicated work to define hypothesis, test them, challenge them, gather data, analyses data, and to discover "truth".

But for beliefs, you don't need to go through all that, just make up your mind and choose to believe it. Doesn't matter what evidence says. No pesky time taken to prove or challenge anything.

It's a good point that you've raised here. Christians I think are unaware of the fact-checking and effort that goes into scientific endeavours, and literally think that scientists park off somewhere wearing a lab coat and *make shit up* to try and discredit Christianity. Rolleyes

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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20-04-2016, 02:43 PM
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(20-04-2016 09:05 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(18-04-2016 11:38 PM)Skittles Wrote:  I'm sorry you felt the need to explain how you know the bible isn't perfect. I can't stress enough that I agree with you that the bible has errors.
We agree because we both know that it is the truth(fact).
(18-04-2016 11:38 PM)Skittles Wrote:  My statement was, "I don't believe the bible to be the word of any god (anymore) so I'm completely open to hearing your side of what the bible means to you and how high it is on the "truthful meter," in your own opinion, of course."
I find some truth in the Bible. The most important truth is that Jesus Christ atoned for us and that He was resurrected. There is no more important truth than that.
It all that matters.
(18-04-2016 11:38 PM)Skittles Wrote:  That's when you gave a quote from Joseph Smith. It didn't really answer the question, but implied you believed what this guy named Joseph Smith said because that's what you referenced.

Shall we try again? Smile

Cheers
I believe in God, I believe that Joseph Smith is Prophet of this God. That is why I believe that he had gift to write new scriptures like Book of Mormon and he had gift to correct mistakes that are found in the Bible.
I believe that God can teach His prophets in 5 min what many LEARNED men won't be able to figure out in their whole life.
Note: this is my conviction and I respect your convictions. Thumbsup
Cheers

Thank you for responding. You said, "I find some truth in the Bible." I'm curious, how do you "know" what the truth of the bible is? How do you make that determination?

I understand that English is your second language so I'll try to explain better what I'm asking for...

When I read the KJV of the bible (for example) I see the word "HELL" showing up over and over again. I can also see it being used in peculiar ways, therefore I have to look up the English word "hell" and find out it's meanings when used in the 17th century. I also have to look up the meaning of the original words that the translators decided to translate to "hell."

I needed modern day EXPERTS (30 years ago) to help me with my own native language, PLUS experts in Greek and Hebrew to tell me about Sheol, Hades, Tartarus and Gehenna along with the words "eternal" and "forever." This was a long and arduous undertaking for me but I came to the best conclusion I could come to for me. I am willing to re-examine my findings if anything comes along that contradicts what I've learned. So far, nobody has been able to point to anything that I haven't already examined. Could I be wrong? Absolutely!!! Could all of those experts been lying to me? Nope! Too many experts, too many books, too much evidence was presented to me. I may very well have misunderstood some of that evidence, but I did NOT misunderstand the bottom line.

By using this technique I feel confident that I'm getting the best possible answers that are available to me. I can use this formula for the trinity, Jesus, the virgin birth, Adam and Eve, and for many of the prophecies, to mention just a few things I've researched for the past 30+ years. FYI: I'm STILL researching things!

Please take note that I'm NOT telling you that you are "wrong" and I'm trying very hard to use words that don't condescend because I'm truly not trying to insult anybody. I'm simply trying to understand what process you are using when you determine what's true and what's not true.

I hope this all makes sense to you and I'll just repeat the question again because I know I've rattled on and on... Undecided

I'm curious, how do you "know" what the truth of the bible is? How do you make that determination?

Cheers
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20-04-2016, 02:45 PM
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
Like Carlin said, He (God) is terrible with money. It must be a book keeping issue. Every super hero has its Kryptonite. Jehova must have a clerical flaw.
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20-04-2016, 04:04 PM (This post was last modified: 20-04-2016 05:24 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(20-04-2016 09:05 AM)Alla Wrote:  I find some truth in the Bible. The most important truth is that Jesus Christ atoned for us and that He was resurrected. There is no more important truth than that.
It all that matters.

The resurrection is unnecessary and suggests a disingenuous promise of a postmortem preservation of personal identity. The atonement was unconditional and universal. No belief required. The belief in the resurrection requirement dilutes and diminishes the sacrifice to the point of being an inconsequential and insignificant personal opinion instead of universal reconciliation.

#sigh
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20-04-2016, 04:21 PM
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(20-04-2016 01:45 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(20-04-2016 09:05 AM)Alla Wrote:  I believe in God,
Yeah, but, even if this god does actually exist, you ignore it/him/her. Instead you use your own imagination to consider, what would god want me to do, what would god think, what would god's position be on this.
It is actually YOU coming up with the answers. Your god IS you.

I don't think that is inconsistent with the polytheistic metaphysics of what I interpret as Alla's presentation of the LDS position. To paraphrase (Alla can correct me), "We are all Gods in training. This is the proving grounds and the test is to recognize the implications of the knowledge of good and evil. Only Gods possess the knowledge of good and evil."

Can't say I disagree with that much other than there is no test and these aren't proving grounds.

#sigh
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