why would a deity need to take attendance ?
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20-04-2016, 04:56 PM (This post was last modified: 20-04-2016 04:59 PM by Stevil.)
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(20-04-2016 04:21 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I don't think that is inconsistent with the polytheistic metaphysics of what I interpret as Alla's presentation of the LDS position. To paraphrase (Alla can correct me), "We are all Gods in training. This is the proving grounds and the test is to recognize the implications of the knowledge of good and evil. Only Gods possess the knowledge of good and evil."

Can't say I disagree with that much other than there is no test and these aren't proving grounds.
Yes, well, as argumentative as I am, I'm not necessarily trying to tell Alla that she is inconsistent.
I guess I'm just expressing my understanding of her position.
That god (The god, law maker yadda yadda) is irrelevant and that her thoughts on godly stuff are hers, they belong to her, they are a reflection of her, she is her god, she elevates herself into that position of "The god", the law maker. She creates laws for herself to follow, she judges herself if she doesn't follow her own laws, she forgives herself (if she can bring herself to do such a thing).
It seems she can only forgive herself (atone) if she believes that Jesus died and resurrected. Which is again beside the point, this is an irrelevant rule that Alla has put in place for herself. If she didn't believe in Jesus then she wouldn't have that particular rule (constraint). The only reason why she has the rule is because she believes. See, so it is an irrelevant constraint. Jesus doesn't matter at all, neither does his resurrection. It's just excess noise.

If Alla were to REALLY progress herself to god status, she ought to throw away subservience to Jesus. Either stop believing in him or imagine herself to win a coup and become the top dog, with Jesus reporting to her, or banished to a place on no consequence where he belongs.

It is a weak god that chooses to follow anyone (let alone Jesus).

But it's upto her of course. She can continue to imagine herself as a lesser god, "a child of Christ" so to speak. Although not having any relationship with Jesus, no interaction, its an irrelevant point. Just part of her internal narritive, perhaps to make her story more interesting??
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20-04-2016, 05:07 PM
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(20-04-2016 04:56 PM)Stevil Wrote:  If Alla were to REALLY progress herself to god status, she ought to throw away subservience to Jesus. Either stop believing in him or imagine herself to win a coup and become the top dog, with Jesus reporting to her, or banished to a place on no consequence where he belongs.

I opted for ingestion. .... granted there were some digestive obstacles to overcome.

(20-04-2016 04:56 PM)Stevil Wrote:  But it's upto her of course. She can continue to imagine herself as a lesser god, "a child of Christ" so to speak. Although not having any relationship with Jesus, no interaction, its an irrelevant point. Just part of her internal narritive, perhaps to make her story more interesting??

I opted for ingestion. .... granted there were some digestive obstacles to overcome.

#sigh
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20-04-2016, 05:31 PM
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(19-04-2016 09:42 AM)Commonsensei Wrote:  
(18-04-2016 05:32 PM)Chas Wrote:  I rather doubt that. Only Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn are visible to the naked eye.


They did not think of Earth as a planet.


Vesta is the second most massive body in the asteroid belt. It on occasion can been visible from earth. Discovered in 1596 Johannes Kepler came to believe that a planet existed between Mars and Jupiter.
http://www.space.com/12097-vesta-asteroi...ystem.html

Juno
was discovered in 1804 By Karl Ludwig Harding how originaly considered it to be a planet, it was reclassified as a asteroid in 1850.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_Juno

Ceres discovered in 1801 by astronomer Father Giuseppe Piazzi. It was also the first orbital body to be classified as an Astroid.
http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/ceres/indepth

Pallas the second asteroid to ever be discovered. But in 1802 Heinrich Willhelm Matthaus Olbers counted it as a finding of a new planet. It wasn't until 1845 did they discovered it was an asteroid.

[Image: herschel7ft.jpg]
This is a William Herschel 7-ft Reflecting Telescope. Created in 1773. Herschel continued developing larger more developed telescopes .
iThis was a drawing of his 40ft reflecting telescope.
[Image: herschel40fta.jpg]

Except your reference was to ancient times. My point stands.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-04-2016, 10:41 AM
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(20-04-2016 04:04 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  The resurrection is unnecessary and suggests a disingenuous promise of a postmortem preservation of personal identity. The atonement was unconditional and universal. No belief required. The belief in the resurrection requirement dilutes and diminishes the sacrifice to the point of being an inconsequential and insignificant personal opinion instead of universal reconciliation.

I don't have to believe in Christ and in His atonement and in His resurrection to be resurrected. ALL people will be resurrected.
It is unconditional. ALL HUMANS are mortal because of Adam. That is why immortality will be given to ALL HUMANS. Resurrection is FOR ALL.
But if I want to be like Gods I have to work towards this goal. It is NOT free.
It is TRUE principles: if I want to achieve something I have to sweat first. Success is never brought on silver plate.

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21-04-2016, 11:02 AM (This post was last modified: 21-04-2016 11:06 AM by Alla.)
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(20-04-2016 02:43 PM)Skittles Wrote:  Thank you for responding. You said, "I find some truth in the Bible." I'm curious, how do you "know" what the truth of the bible is? How do you make that determination?
I'm simply trying to understand what process you are using when you determine what's true and what's not true.
Sure, I will answer your questions.
This is the process:
1)I study what prophets teach. (BTW we have many experts in Scriptures, Hebrew and Greek and other languages in the Church.)
2)I ask God if what they say is true. When God confirms that it is true I accept it. When God answers I am convinced. I am so convinced that I easily can say: " I KNOW it is true!"
So, as you see this process is very simple. And I believe that there is no other way to figure out what is the truth about God and what is not.

Cheers.

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21-04-2016, 11:16 AM
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(20-04-2016 01:45 PM)Stevil Wrote:  There's no evidence supporting the errant bible's claim that a very special, one of a kind event happened where a dead guy came back to life.
No evidence supporting the bible's claim that people need atoning, no evidence supporting the claim that a blood sacrifice atones for anything.
True. That is why I don't have perfect knowledge of those things. I BILIEVE in them.
(20-04-2016 01:45 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(20-04-2016 09:05 AM)Alla Wrote:  I believe in God,
Yeah, but, even if this god does actually exist, you ignore it/him/her. Instead you use your own imagination to consider, what would god want me to do, what would god think, what would god's position be on this.
It is actually YOU coming up with the answers. Your god IS you.
I might use some imagination about God. I have never seen Him. But I have Scriptures and Prophets. They teach principles of the Gospel. I believe those principles are true and that is why I am learning to live by those principles. It works perfectly for me.

(20-04-2016 01:45 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Because a claim that a guy stuck his face in a hat with magical stones and then could have all the answers is totally believable.
Not a one off special unprovable event, right?
It is hard to believe many things when their nature is unknown. So, I totally can understand you.
(20-04-2016 01:45 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I understand this is your belief, your epistemology.
I don't respect it, it's nuts. But hey, you're entitled to have a floppy mind.
I respect your opinion.

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21-04-2016, 01:22 PM
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(21-04-2016 10:41 AM)Alla Wrote:  It is unconditional. ALL HUMANS are mortal because of Adam.
Well, actually, all creatures are mortal, because of evolution. If biological life forms didn't die then we wouldn't have evolved. Evolution requires a competition for limited resource, it requires that the fittest survive and the less fit die out. If this weren't to happen then there would be no progression, no complexity of life forms, we would remain very simple singled cell forms (if not even something more simple such as a self replicating chemical structure)

(21-04-2016 10:41 AM)Alla Wrote:  That is why immortality will be given to ALL HUMANS.
This is pure fantasy. No-one has ever lived to 200 years let alone been immortal.

Oh, it's true because you choose to believe it. That's the definition of Truth right?
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21-04-2016, 01:26 PM
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(20-04-2016 05:31 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(19-04-2016 09:42 AM)Commonsensei Wrote:  Vesta is the second most massive body in the asteroid belt. It on occasion can been visible from earth. Discovered in 1596 Johannes Kepler came to believe that a planet existed between Mars and Jupiter.
http://www.space.com/12097-vesta-asteroi...ystem.html

Juno
was discovered in 1804 By Karl Ludwig Harding how originaly considered it to be a planet, it was reclassified as a asteroid in 1850.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_Juno

Ceres discovered in 1801 by astronomer Father Giuseppe Piazzi. It was also the first orbital body to be classified as an Astroid.
http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/ceres/indepth

Pallas the second asteroid to ever be discovered. But in 1802 Heinrich Willhelm Matthaus Olbers counted it as a finding of a new planet. It wasn't until 1845 did they discovered it was an asteroid.

[Image: herschel7ft.jpg]
This is a William Herschel 7-ft Reflecting Telescope. Created in 1773. Herschel continued developing larger more developed telescopes .
iThis was a drawing of his 40ft reflecting telescope.
[Image: herschel40fta.jpg]

Except your reference was to ancient times. My point stands.

Ooh I think I see the misunderstanding. I was referring to the people Alla Considers prophets Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor etc etc.

They we're all born in the beginning on the 1800's. And founded the LDS Church in 1830.

If we went further back to BCE then yeah, I'd be completely wrong.

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21-04-2016, 01:31 PM
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(21-04-2016 11:16 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(20-04-2016 01:45 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Yeah, but, even if this god does actually exist, you ignore it/him/her. Instead you use your own imagination to consider, what would god want me to do, what would god think, what would god's position be on this.
It is actually YOU coming up with the answers. Your god IS you.
I might use some imagination about God. I have never seen Him. But I have Scriptures and Prophets. They teach principles of the Gospel. I believe those principles are true and that is why I am learning to live by those principles. It works perfectly for me.
This makes you dependent on these people, put's your mind in their hands. You will believe whatever they tell you. You wont even think to question their claims.

This is the crux of religion. Become dependent, forgo critical thought, pay them your money for the privilege.

As you can see, I am very cynical of religious organisations. I believe they are in it for money and power but are very good at portraying themselves as genuine and trustworthy. They would make great con artists (no, wait, they already are).

The bible is just a facilitator to this method of con. That's why it is so popular with many organisations. Indeed the creation of the problem (you are all sinners, unworthy) and offer the cure (atonement, redemption) by accepting tithes and giving "moral advice" and setting rules, with promised reward (eternal life) Pffft!
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21-04-2016, 11:43 PM
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(21-04-2016 10:41 AM)Alla Wrote:  But if I want to be like Gods I have to work towards this goal. It is NOT free.
It is TRUE principles: if I want to achieve something I have to sweat first. Success is never brought on silver plate.

It is free. Drinking Beverage

#sigh
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