why would a deity need to take attendance ?
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07-05-2016, 09:46 PM (This post was last modified: 08-05-2016 12:38 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(07-05-2016 09:09 PM)Alla Wrote:  HELP

I have a question:
Let's assume there are two men(male) who are descendants of Manasseh
each of them has a wife who is not Hebrew(their lineage is unknown)
They have children. Assume that these children are only male. Or assume their children are male and female but female children died at very young age.
their children (sons) have wives (who are not Hebrew/their lineage is unknown)
about 2,500 years passed
will the descendants of these two men (who were descendants of Manasseh) have Hebrew DNA?
if yes, why?
if no, why?

thanks to any person who answers.

You're fundamentally missing the point, and that's reflected in your question. They wouldn't have 'Hebrew DNA', because nobody has 'Hebrew DNA'.

Genetics can be used to look back into the history of an individual or a population, when compared to other populations. Genetic drift has occurred within humans, and populations across different times and regions carry different characteristics and markers, and these leave a traceable mark on their genetic lineage. Things such as the small amount of Neanderthal DNA found predominately in northern Europeans, indicative of the cross-breeding of the two species long ago, and finding such genetic markers in an individual would tie their lineage to that time and place (northern European around the last ice age). Africans have a propensity towards developing sickle cell anemia, which appears to be an adaptation that's only useful in regions that have widespread outbreaks of malaria.

We can trace these slight changes, these drifts, in our genetic lineage. That's how we know that the native people of the Americas came across the Bering land bridge, because their DNA lineage if far more similar to modern day populations in Asia than to Europeans, Africans, or the Middle East. So had an entire population of people from the Middle East taken a trip in wooden submarines to the Americas, then the Native Americans found in those regions should show a much closer genetic correlation to modern populations in the Middle East. They simply do not.

Of course, genetics isn't the only evidence. The human migration from Asia into the Americas is also supported by cultural anthropology, archaeology, and linguistics. The earliest settlers of the Americas far more closely resembled the ancient people of Asia, than they did the people and cultures of the Mediterranean or the Fertile Crescent. These many different lines of evidence all corroborate with one another. So if a population of Hebrew really had established themselves in the Americas, an entirely new and different genetic population that wasn't closely related tot he current inhabitants, that would leave rather obvious signs in their descendants, even if they interbred with that existing population. Not only that, but we'd expect to see evidence of their culture, a massive change in linguistics. there should have been a huge paradigm shift at the melding of two very different cultures, but there's no evidence of this whatsoever. The people of the Americas didn't grew barley or other staples of 19th century New York agriculture (crops imported from Europe and not native to America, which is all Smith was familiar with), they didn't have words in their language for 'oxen' or 'cart' (horses are not native to America, they were imported by European settlers), they didn't use gold coins for currency (they relied upon barter, occasionally some developed stone or shell currency; nobody minted coins like the Europeans did).

This is how we know the stories of the 'Lost Tribes of Israel' are complete bullshit. Because if they were true as Joseph Smith described, there are lines of evidence we should expect to see to be able to corroborate this story. Such an event would leave very clear evidence. But we don't see it, and that absence of evidence makes for a deafening silence.

Once again, it's one thing to lose a steel sword, but how in the hell does one lose an entire steel mill? You don't. The stories are complete fabrications. They are lies.

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07-05-2016, 09:56 PM
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
THANK YOU, EK. I really mean it.

I will make changes to my question:

Let's assume there are two men(male) who came to Americas from Middle East
each of them found a wife in Americas
They have children. Assume that these children are only male. Or assume their children are male and female but female children died at very young age.
their children (sons) found wives in Americas
about 2,500 years passed
will the descendants of these two men (who came from Middle East to Americas) have Middle East DNA?
if yes, why?
if no, why?

English is my second language.
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07-05-2016, 10:12 PM
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(07-05-2016 09:56 PM)Alla Wrote:  THANK YOU, EK. I really mean it.

I will make changes to my question:

Let's assume there are two men(male) who came to Americas from Middle East
each of them found a wife in Americas
They have children. Assume that these children are only male. Or assume their children are male and female but female children died at very young age.
their children (sons) found wives in Americas
about 2,500 years passed
will the descendants of these two men (who came from Middle East to Americas) have Middle East DNA?
if yes, why?
if no, why?

Once again, you're kinda missing the point. If there existed such a population of Native Americans today, that modern population would be significantly different than their neighbors. An infusion of genetic markers from the Middle East a few thousand years ago would be very noticeable in that particular American population, because all of the other populations that trace their lineage back exclusively through the Bering Straight migration would be removed from modern Middle East populations by tens of thousands of years instead of 2,500 years.

There is no evidence of such an injection of Middle Eastern genetic markers into any Native American population dating back a few thousand years.

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08-05-2016, 12:15 AM
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
Also bear in mind Alla, these two guys' descendants would have to have become the *dominant* tribe in the Americas to fit correctly with Mormon mythology. So testing should reveal those genetic markers.

Here in SA/Zimbabwe the Lemba tribe have actual genetic evidence linking them back to the Middle East, and they claim to Judaism, although that claim has been disputed. But that's the kind of thing that one would expect to see in genetic studies of native Americans.

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08-05-2016, 12:43 AM
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(07-05-2016 09:56 PM)Alla Wrote:  THANK YOU, EK. I really mean it.

I will make changes to my question:

Let's assume there are two men(male) who came to Americas from Middle East
each of them found a wife in Americas
They have children. Assume that these children are only male. Or assume their children are male and female but female children died at very young age.
their children (sons) found wives in Americas
about 2,500 years passed
will the descendants of these two men (who came from Middle East to Americas) have Middle East DNA?
if yes, why?
if no, why?

I'm going to give this a try in as simple of a way as I can while trying to stay pretty accurate. If I understand properly, the differences in DNA sequencing can tell where people come from too.

Mistakes are made sometimes, like gene duplication, for example. If people from the middle east have an identifiable gene duplication on identical place markers on their chromosomes (for example) then those people who have offspring would have no choice but to pass that duplicate gene error on to their children, boys and girls. This is how DNA can identify certain people from different regions, as I understand it.

I hope I have that basically right... I'm sure others will join in to correct anything I have wrong.

Cheers
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08-05-2016, 01:25 AM (This post was last modified: 08-05-2016 01:30 AM by Deesse23.)
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(07-05-2016 09:56 PM)Alla Wrote:  Assume that these children are only male. Or assume their children are male and female but female children died at very young age.
.... their children (sons) found wives in Americas
......

Making assumptions like this, being utterly baseless (come on, having all female children die, really? Why?)...it shows you are not looking for the truth (= that what comports to reality) but you are desperately trying to keep your delusion alive.

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08-05-2016, 05:56 AM
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(08-05-2016 12:15 AM)morondog Wrote:  Also bear in mind Alla, these two guys' descendants would have to have become the *dominant* tribe in the Americas to fit correctly with Mormon mythology. So testing should reveal those genetic markers.

Here in SA/Zimbabwe the Lemba tribe have actual genetic evidence linking them back to the Middle East, and they claim to Judaism, although that claim has been disputed. But that's the kind of thing that one would expect to see in genetic studies of native Americans.

I was going to mention the Lemba, their story is EXACTLY what we would expect from a group that are actually descended from the Jews.

Their traditions closely resemble the unique traditions of Jews.

Their genetic markers were traced back to a very specific group of Jews that correlated to their traditions.

IOW they have actual proof to back up their claims.

This is what a credible claim looks like, this is totally different from Mormon claims.

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08-05-2016, 11:26 AM (This post was last modified: 08-05-2016 11:29 AM by Alla.)
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
I thank all of you for the help. I need to digest all the information. If it was not you I wouldn't take my Evolution 101 course from evolution.berkeley.edu
I wouldn't re-learned about cells and DNA. I am learning a lot. I think all of you deserve big, big thank you for that.
But because I am not as bright as all of you and I am not pro in genetics and stuff I may have hard time to understand everything you say.

So, saying all this I still don't feel like I have an answer to my specific question (may be because I was born too stupid).
So, please, forgive me.
My question: if there are two men who came from Middle East to Americas and if they took wives from the population who already lived in this land, if they had sons and then if their sons had wives who already lived in Americas, if they had many more descendants, if 2,500 years passed. Will their descendants have Middle East DNA? if yes why? if no, why?
This is all I want to know for now.

yes or no? and why?

English is my second language.
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08-05-2016, 11:32 AM
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(08-05-2016 01:25 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(07-05-2016 09:56 PM)Alla Wrote:  Assume that these children are only male. Or assume their children are male and female but female children died at very young age.
.... their children (sons) found wives in Americas
......

Making assumptions like this, being utterly baseless (come on, having all female children die, really? Why?)...it shows you are not looking for the truth (= that what comports to reality) but you are desperately trying to keep your delusion alive.
is it not possible that between two men they had 1 daughter and then that daughter died at a very young age?
I know many LDS families who have 13 boys and not even girl.

English is my second language.
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08-05-2016, 11:56 AM
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(08-05-2016 11:32 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(08-05-2016 01:25 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Making assumptions like this, being utterly baseless (come on, having all female children die, really? Why?)...it shows you are not looking for the truth (= that what comports to reality) but you are desperately trying to keep your delusion alive.
is it not possible that between two men they had 1 daughter and then that daughter died at a very young age?
I know many LDS families who have 13 boys and not even girl.
Alla, it doesn't matter what gender the off spring is their DNA will be there period. DNA doesn't care what gender who are expect to tell the different between male and female. So no matter how you slice it or try to make it fit it will never ever be true.
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