why would a deity need to take attendance ?
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15-04-2016, 06:11 PM (This post was last modified: 15-04-2016 10:12 PM by ClydeLee.)
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(15-04-2016 05:58 PM)Alla Wrote:  God gives moral agency to men. Some CHOOSE NOT to believe in Him. These have to be protected. Because when they know the law and choose to break it anyway because of their unbelief, they will be more accountable.
It is better for them not to know those laws and doctrines. It is better for them NOT to understand those laws and doctrines.

So let them choose not to believe.. let them be "unprotected" ... no they don't have to be protected. Only those who would think so low of humanity think that is the case. It's fine, let people be accountable. Why do you insist this thought that humans need to be assisted... sounds very socialist.

You proclaim to know x is BETTER. You're saying it yourself. You use the exact same reasoning again of totalitarian, we know what is best, regimes to the masses.

Well you say, you KNOW because you experienced this is true. Well others experience differently and "know" that is actually manipulative false claims for personal glory of people like you... so why do you act repeatedly horrible to other human beings and proclaim to know what x is better for them or what they need to be protected from about? Just grow out for yourself, sure it works for your happiness... FINE, don't press on that you KNOW it will work for others and its what they need.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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15-04-2016, 07:17 PM
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(15-04-2016 05:52 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(15-04-2016 05:11 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Of course, because this God is incapable of giving information in all absolute ways and actually judging if they were "ready or not" instead of "protecting" them from the rules it created making there no reason it cant make rules any other possible way it wants at all at any possible time.
the only reason why you say this is because you do NOT know why God is sending us(His children) here on Earth. You do NOT know the purpose that is behind mortality of men.
we also have moral agency, but I am sure you do not understand why I even mention it now.

(15-04-2016 05:11 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  You honestly promote ignorance, routinely. And you still don't get why I've said before your type of reasoning is literally the type that leads to why millions needlessly die to horrible authoritarian ideas.
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Alla writes, "we also have moral agency, but I am sure you do not understand why I even mention it now."

I have an explanation. It's so when Alla is a god, as she believes she is training to be, she has an excuse for the holocausts, genocides, rapes, etc., that she allows, in the name of "teaching" about good and evil. Because evidently no god in the mormon theology system can manage to instruct its subjects about good and evil without subjecting those creations to the unspeakable. The only rationale that I can come up with for this system is that the IQ of the Mormon god and its followers is quite low, even below dog or cat level.
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15-04-2016, 07:57 PM
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(15-04-2016 05:47 PM)Alla Wrote:  If we had PERFECT KNOWLEDGE and CORRECT UNDERSTANDING of God and His laws we would NOT have an excuse if we would break them. We would be accountable. We would not be forgiven.
But we do NOT have perfect knowledge of God and sometimes we even don't have correct understanding of God's laws.
So, if God didn't give us this perfect knowledge of Him and correct understanding of something then who is responsible for this? God or us? The correct answer is "God".
God knows this.
He protects those who do not believe by not giving them an understanding.
But when I BELIEVE and I know His laws and then I break them I am more accountable. But I can be forgiven because I still do NOT have PERFECT KNOWLEDGE.
Conclusion: those who have PERFECT KNOWLEDGE of God can not be excused. Those who do NOT have PERFECT KNOWLEDGE of God can be forgiven.
Those who never heard about laws of God do NOT sin because sin is breaking the law knowingly.

Can you prove any of that? Or did you just pull it all out of your ass? Aka: "translated" from the bible.
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15-04-2016, 08:50 PM
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(14-04-2016 07:04 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(11-04-2016 07:05 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Where do Mormons believe their god's laws are written?
We believe that God reveals His laws through His prophets. Prophets speaks or write these laws.
Writings of the prophets are called "scriptures". Mormons have many books that are called "scriptures"
But only 4 of them are "Standard Works":
1)The Bible
2)Book of Mormon
3)D&C (Doctrine and Covenants)
4)Pearl of Great Price

I forgot about Mormon prophets. IIRC Mormon prophets refine and adjust Mormon practices as time passes. Judaism has sort of similar process, but we do not believe that anyone is an actual prophet or that G-d influences these proceedings. Changes to the observance of law are made through the Rabbis who evaluate Jewish law and the social climate. It can kind of be a tug of war until we settle on a new practice that suits everyone. And, the Jewish people have been known to tell the Rabbis to stick it when they’ve come up with a practice that we’ve found impractical or unreasonable.

Okay, but I have a question relating to the question asked by OP.

Christianity, and by extension, Mormonism, does not get their tithing practice from us Jews. I was recently asked in another post to explain Jewish donation practice, which you can review here. In short, we give 10% of our incomes to any charity or needy family. Our synagogues run on a set budget so people know exactly what they require to keep their doors open, and additional funds are not necessary. No one checks to see if Jews are actually giving to charity.

I have heard that Mormon practice is very different from Jewish practice and that church administration not only expects 10% of your income to go to them (and only them), but they actually check income statements from members to confirm that they’re getting the share of funds they believe is due to them.

This is sort of a way of “taking attendance” and keeping tabs on church members. My question for you is whether or not this actually happens, and if not, how you might feel about such practice being revealed?
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16-04-2016, 12:14 AM
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(15-04-2016 05:47 PM)Alla Wrote:  I don't have to BELIEVE that there is such thing as government in my country. I have PERFECT KNOWLEDGE that there is government.
Sure, you know there is a government because they don't cower in the shadows, they are transparent, they let themselves be known, just as they should.

(15-04-2016 05:47 PM)Alla Wrote:  So, I better know and understand as many laws of the government as possible so I won't be in trouble. it is my responsibility to know and understand those laws.
Do you understand why laws are in place? Is it merely because the govt says so and you must obey or is there a purpose behind those laws?
Do you submit yourself and obey (this approach would mean that you need to be intimately familiar with each and every law)
OR
Do you use common sense and avoid doing things that are destructive to society because, in general, those things would be against the law.


(15-04-2016 05:47 PM)Alla Wrote:  God knows when we lie and when we tell the truth.
Do you know this, or do you assert and choose to believe this?


(15-04-2016 05:47 PM)Alla Wrote:  Can you punish your child who doesn't understand your instruction? God can't.
There's a great many things that god cannot do, like breath, eat, sleep, learn, forget, lift a rock (of any size), drive a car, spell the word "I".

(15-04-2016 05:47 PM)Alla Wrote:  If we had PERFECT KNOWLEDGE and CORRECT UNDERSTANDING of God and His laws we would NOT have an excuse if we would break them.
I just don't understand your thinking here.
If there is a god creature and it makes a law such as "Don't eat ice cream"
Well, I'm still going to eat ice cream. Why would I care what silly laws your god creature comes up with? Why would its laws be important to me?

(15-04-2016 05:47 PM)Alla Wrote:  We would be accountable. We would not be forgiven.
Accountable to who?
Forgiven by who?

Why would I care if the god creature forgives me or not? God means nothing to me. Why would I care what the god wants or thinks?


(15-04-2016 05:47 PM)Alla Wrote:  But we do NOT have perfect knowledge of God and sometimes we even don't have correct understanding of God's laws.
Thus god is actually irrelevant.
It is only your beliefs about a theoretical god that are relevant, they are ONLY relevant to you and no-one else. It doesn't matter what god actually wants, actually cares about. The only thing that is important is your own imagination and the god that you dream up. Your beliefs make an actual existent god (if there is one) irrelevant.

(15-04-2016 05:47 PM)Alla Wrote:  So, if God didn't give us this perfect knowledge of Him and correct understanding of something then who is responsible for this? God or us? The correct answer is "God".
God knows this.
The god you imagine "knows this", whether an actual god knows this is irrelevant, because you only refer to the one that you imagine. Your beliefs make an actual god irrelevant.


(15-04-2016 05:47 PM)Alla Wrote:  He protects those who do not believe by not giving them an understanding.
This is something you've dreamed up. This is not knowledge of an actual god. This is your imagined god.

(15-04-2016 05:47 PM)Alla Wrote:  But when I BELIEVE and I know His laws and then I break them I am more accountable. But I can be forgiven because I still do NOT have PERFECT KNOWLEDGE.
Conclusion: those who have PERFECT KNOWLEDGE of God can not be excused. Those who do NOT have PERFECT KNOWLEDGE of God can be forgiven.
Those who never heard about laws of God do NOT sin because sin is breaking the law knowingly.
Whatever floats your boat.
Good luck with that. I find god and imagined gods irrelevant.
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16-04-2016, 05:05 AM (This post was last modified: 16-04-2016 05:41 AM by Deesse23.)
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
Alla, please drop that "perfect" shit everytime you mention knowledge.

Either you know or you dont, period, comprende?

There is no better, "perfect", knowledge. There is belief however, and strong belief, and even stronger belief. But belief never turns into knowledge, no matter how strong your belief is. You think if you believe strong enough, it will turn into or equal knowledge? It wont! Thats why you dont know the difference between what you believe and what you know, thats why you cant explain to anyone whats the difference between your beliefs and your knowledge, thats why eveybody thinks you are stupid, because you have a silly epistemology.

This is one of the key errors of your epistemology and reasons of your sad and pathetic existence.

You want to know how to realy turn belief into knowledge? Learn to critically think, to collect evidence (first you would have to learn what "evidence" exactly is), try to falsify your beliefs, see if any of your beliefs can be demonstrated to be true (or false).

But remaining incredibly intellectually lazy, just deliberatly choosing beliefs and then thinking they turn into knowledge once you believe strong enough, that will keep you being the gullible, uneducated, ignorant person that is being made fun of so much in this forum.

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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16-04-2016, 10:29 AM
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(15-04-2016 04:23 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(15-04-2016 02:19 PM)Skittles Wrote:  I don't believe the bible to be the word of any god (anymore) so I'm completely open to hearing your side of what the bible means to you and how high it is on the "truthful meter," in your own opinion, of course.
I BELIEVE that the Bible to be the Word of God as far as it is translated correctly. There are many parts of the truth that were lost. The Bible does not have them. There is NO fullness of the Gospel in the Bible.
The Bible was written by imperfect men - prophets, who wrote what their lean from God in their weaknesses and to the best of their abilities. it was also translated by imperfect men and more importantly by men who had NO authority from God to do this.
(15-04-2016 02:19 PM)Skittles Wrote:  I think we will be better able to communicate if we both know what the other truly believes. Don't you?
I guess. So, what do you believe about the Bible?


Cheers

Thank you for responding Alla. I agree with you that the bible was written by imperfect men.

You speak of "correct translation" and have implied that it was NOT translated correctly. Are you fluent in Greek, Hebrew or even possibly Aramaic? Have you spoken with genuine "expert" translators or just people who claim to know a few words here and there?

This is important because you are speaking of "translations" as if you are an expert in the languages, or maybe you know an expert and can share this information. Maybe you can give an example of these bad translations so we can find out for ourselves?

If I'm reading your post incorrectly, please consider re-phrasing. Thank you.

Cheers
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16-04-2016, 10:38 AM
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(16-04-2016 10:29 AM)Skittles Wrote:  
(15-04-2016 04:23 PM)Alla Wrote:  I BELIEVE that the Bible to be the Word of God as far as it is translated correctly. There are many parts of the truth that were lost. The Bible does not have them. There is NO fullness of the Gospel in the Bible.
The Bible was written by imperfect men - prophets, who wrote what their lean from God in their weaknesses and to the best of their abilities. it was also translated by imperfect men and more importantly by men who had NO authority from God to do this.
I guess. So, what do you believe about the Bible?


Cheers

Thank you for responding Alla. I agree with you that the bible was written by imperfect men.

You speak of "correct translation" and have implied that it was NOT translated correctly. Are you fluent in Greek, Hebrew or even possibly Aramaic? Have you spoken with genuine "expert" translators or just people who claim to know a few words here and there?

This is important because you are speaking of "translations" as if you are an expert in the languages, or maybe you know an expert and can share this information. Maybe you can give an example of these bad translations so we can find out for ourselves?

If I'm reading your post incorrectly, please consider re-phrasing. Thank you.

Cheers

My prediction for her response would be yes. She believes she's talked to the holy ghost. She knows him personal and it tells her when things are true or not.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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16-04-2016, 11:16 AM (This post was last modified: 16-04-2016 11:22 AM by Skittles.)
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(16-04-2016 10:38 AM)Commonsensei Wrote:  
(16-04-2016 10:29 AM)Skittles Wrote:  Thank you for responding Alla. I agree with you that the bible was written by imperfect men.

You speak of "correct translation" and have implied that it was NOT translated correctly. Are you fluent in Greek, Hebrew or even possibly Aramaic? Have you spoken with genuine "expert" translators or just people who claim to know a few words here and there?

This is important because you are speaking of "translations" as if you are an expert in the languages, or maybe you know an expert and can share this information. Maybe you can give an example of these bad translations so we can find out for ourselves?

If I'm reading your post incorrectly, please consider re-phrasing. Thank you.

Cheers

My prediction for her response would be yes. She believes she's talked to the holy ghost. She knows him personal and it tells her when things are true or not.

That would be most unfortunate if that's her "belief." Those types are the ones that scare me the most. I see the Andrea Yates' coming from those "kinds" of people.

Cheers
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16-04-2016, 02:20 PM
RE: why would a deity need to take attendance ?
(16-04-2016 11:16 AM)Skittles Wrote:  
(16-04-2016 10:38 AM)Commonsensei Wrote:  My prediction for her response would be yes. She believes she's talked to the holy ghost. She knows him personal and it tells her when things are true or not.

That would be most unfortunate if that's her "belief." Those types are the ones that scare me the most. I see the Andrea Yates' coming from those "kinds" of people.

Cheers

Just the tip of the ice berg, when it comes to Alla.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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