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16-03-2015, 06:12 PM
RE: wow Florida wow
(16-03-2015 05:07 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(16-03-2015 03:46 PM)Αθεία Αμβρόσιος Wrote:  What would you have in opposition to obligation to work?

Perhaps one doesn't see the desire to "thrive" in the way you view thriving in striving for the things you may deem good. It could come from an objection of my ideologies depending on what it was really requiring of me, and if that was deemed not a better system for me, why should I accept it?

Putting it like that, I can understand. But why should some work hard, and others delegate, scrounge or generally refuse to sustain themselves?

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16-03-2015, 07:25 PM (This post was last modified: 16-03-2015 07:41 PM by Nurse.)
RE: wow Florida wow
Ok, so I decided I could be arsed enough to post a few stats.

Quote:While circumstances can vary, the main reason people experience homelessness is because they cannot find housing they can afford. It is the scarcity of affordable housing in the United States, particularly in more urban areas where homelessness is more prevalent, that is behind their inability to acquire or maintain housing.
By the numbers:
In January 2014, there were 578,424 people experiencing homelessness on any given night in the United States.
Of that number, 216,197 are people in families, and
362,163 are individuals.
About 15 percent of the homeless population – 84,291 - are considered "chronically homeless” individuals, and
About 9 percent of homeless people- 49,933 - are veterans.
Source: homelessness.org

Also on the site I sourced they mention that a full time worker earning minimum wage is not enough to pay rent for a 2 bedroom apartment anywhere in the US.

I'm surprised it would cover the cost of a studio apartment plus essentials anywhere in the US - I've been there, done that with minimum wage. (At the time it was $5.50/hr). Without the assistance of family I would have been both homeless and at the very foodbank whose logs I kept.

[Image: 2014-10-02-blackmotherchildhomeless3.jpg]

I think we as a society have a tendency to depersonify homeless persons - it's uncomfortable to be approached by someone dirty and smelly and lacking social graces, as well as the threat of danger (schizophrenic without routine access to medical care in stressful conditions...recipe for disaster). It's uncomfortable to see another human being suffer and have so little as you walk through the restaurant parking lot, burp off your indigestion from overeating and hop into your SUV. At least it is for me. Much easier not to look them in the eye and ignore their presence so you don't see the desperation.

How can you expect someone physically and/or mentally ill/disabled to work for their food and shelter? That's the picture of most chronically homeless persons.

[Image: Homeless_man,_Tokyo,_2008.jpg]

What pisses me off about making it illegal to give food in good will (referring to OP) to a hungry person is likening the action to feeding pigeons in the park. They're a goddamn person, another human being, for christ's sake.

[Image: PensiveHomeless.jpg]

84,000+ chronically homeless - and we call ourselves civilized, as if we don't have the goddamn resources to put four walls and a roof over those people.

I was taught to treat "the least of these" (yes I'm quoting scripture, deal with it) with respect and kindness and expect nothing in return. Sometimes you give out of the kindness of your heart - empathy, love for someone other than ourselves, that's what makes us human.

"If there's a single thing that life teaches us, it's that wishing doesn't make it so." - Lev Grossman
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16-03-2015, 09:29 PM
RE: wow Florida wow
(16-03-2015 06:12 PM)Αθεία Αμβρόσιος Wrote:  
(16-03-2015 05:07 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Perhaps one doesn't see the desire to "thrive" in the way you view thriving in striving for the things you may deem good. It could come from an objection of my ideologies depending on what it was really requiring of me, and if that was deemed not a better system for me, why should I accept it?

Putting it like that, I can understand. But why should some work hard, and others delegate, scrounge or generally refuse to sustain themselves?

Why should I feel any obligation to work hard just because you're completely nuts and work your butt off?

Any case most of the middle class/rich kids I've ever met are as incompetent as the next guy, they just got lucky with some education and a sound economic position to start with. The old boy network won't *let* them fail. And yet they feel comfortable judging homeless people who don't have the advantages they have to be 'free-loaders'.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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18-03-2015, 04:29 PM
RE: wow Florida wow
(16-03-2015 09:29 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(16-03-2015 06:12 PM)Αθεία Αμβρόσιος Wrote:  Putting it like that, I can understand. But why should some work hard, and others delegate, scrounge or generally refuse to sustain themselves?

Why should I feel any obligation to work hard just because you're completely nuts and work your butt off?

Any case most of the middle class/rich kids I've ever met are as incompetent as the next guy, they just got lucky with some education and a sound economic position to start with. The old boy network won't *let* them fail. And yet they feel comfortable judging homeless people who don't have the advantages they have to be 'free-loaders'.

In the case of middle/upper class chaps, I totally agree with you (although it wasn't the subject of the original discussion). It's no more right. To see someone make riches, and then their children reap the entire benefit with no intention to apply themselves, or work hard.

I'm not saying you should feel any obligation to work hard. You shouldn't feel any which way about it. Take a leaf out of Nike's book. Just Do It. I don't personally want to be paying tax into a system that supports people who don't pay in themselves (through work, or whatever means), despite being capable of doing so. The world isn't fair, I get that too, but ideally having to support the able-bodied lazy just thoroughly irritates me.

Nobody is entitled to anything. Human life is worth utterly nothing on an innate level. There seems to be some sort of illusory safety cushion in the Western World that says: "Oh, it's alright, you're worth something because you're a human being". Whereas in other parts of the world, you have people dying for absolutely no reason.

And yes, the world we live in is the ideal of the two. But wouldn't it more ideal if we didn't tolerate freeloaders and the chronically lazy who live in a bubble of entitlement to good living conditions just because they happen to exist?

No sodding way.

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18-03-2015, 04:37 PM
RE: wow Florida wow
(18-03-2015 04:29 PM)Αθεία Αμβρόσιος Wrote:  
(16-03-2015 09:29 PM)morondog Wrote:  Why should I feel any obligation to work hard just because you're completely nuts and work your butt off?

Any case most of the middle class/rich kids I've ever met are as incompetent as the next guy, they just got lucky with some education and a sound economic position to start with. The old boy network won't *let* them fail. And yet they feel comfortable judging homeless people who don't have the advantages they have to be 'free-loaders'.

In the case of middle/upper class chaps, I totally agree with you (although it wasn't the subject of the original discussion). It's no more right. To see someone make riches, and then their children reap the entire benefit with no intention to apply themselves, or work hard.

I'm not saying you should feel any obligation to work hard. You shouldn't feel any which way about it. Take a leaf out of Nike's book. Just Do It. I don't personally want to be paying tax into a system that supports people who don't pay in themselves (through work, or whatever means), despite being capable of doing so. The world isn't fair, I get that too, but ideally having to support the able-bodied lazy just thoroughly irritates me.

Nobody is entitled to anything. Human life is worth utterly nothing on an innate level. There seems to be some sort of illusory safety cushion in the Western World that says: "Oh, it's alright, you're worth something because you're a human being". Whereas in other parts of the world, you have people dying for absolutely no reason.

And yes, the world we live in is the ideal of the two. But wouldn't it more ideal if we didn't tolerate freeloaders and the chronically lazy who live in a bubble of entitlement to good living conditions just because they happen to exist?

No sodding way.

You not valuing human life as nothing goes against what society wants through human rights and government.
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18-03-2015, 09:35 PM (This post was last modified: 18-03-2015 09:40 PM by Free.)
RE: wow Florida wow
(06-11-2014 09:59 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/04/justice/fl...index.html


Florida has legislated the right to help those in need??? WTAF Florida???

What. The. Actual. Fuck?????

No offence to Americans, but as a Canadian outsider looking in at America, I don't know how the fuck you people can actually function as a nation when you have so many of these completely fucking retarded laws.

We get your news channels up here. and we see what's going on in your politics. Nothing makes any sense, everybody seems to be in politics for the money, and hardly anything ever gets done.

How the fuck does the richest and most powerful nation in the world not have free health care? How the fuck do you not have gun control laws? Why do you have black colleges & universities, and then complain about racism when your nation allows racial segregation like that? How is that not apartheid?

Honestly, i do not understand American culture at all. Oh I know my nation isn't perfect either ... but holy fuck people?

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19-03-2015, 12:05 AM
RE: wow Florida wow
(18-03-2015 04:29 PM)Αθεία Αμβρόσιος Wrote:  I'm not saying you should feel any obligation to work hard. You shouldn't feel any which way about it. Take a leaf out of Nike's book. Just Do It. I don't personally want to be paying tax into a system that supports people who don't pay in themselves (through work, or whatever means), despite being capable of doing so. The world isn't fair, I get that too, but ideally having to support the able-bodied lazy just thoroughly irritates me.
Boohoo for you. You have the option of legally oppressing people through mroe restrictive laws about who gets what, as they have actually done in the case under discussion. So tell me, do you consider it a good thing, this law that says no one is allowed to feed the homeless?

Quote:Nobody is entitled to anything. Human life is worth utterly nothing on an innate level. There seems to be some sort of illusory safety cushion in the Western World that says: "Oh, it's alright, you're worth something because you're a human being". Whereas in other parts of the world, you have people dying for absolutely no reason.
So the humanist viewpoint of people having worth is... worse than the callous disregard for human life found elsewhere?

Quote:And yes, the world we live in is the ideal of the two. But wouldn't it more ideal if we didn't tolerate freeloaders and the chronically lazy who live in a bubble of entitlement to good living conditions just because they happen to exist?

No sodding way.
You seem to think just because you exist and work *entitles* you to tell other people how to live their lives. No sodding way.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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20-03-2015, 03:09 PM
RE: wow Florida wow
(19-03-2015 12:05 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(18-03-2015 04:29 PM)Αθεία Αμβρόσιος Wrote:  I'm not saying you should feel any obligation to work hard. You shouldn't feel any which way about it. Take a leaf out of Nike's book. Just Do It. I don't personally want to be paying tax into a system that supports people who don't pay in themselves (through work, or whatever means), despite being capable of doing so. The world isn't fair, I get that too, but ideally having to support the able-bodied lazy just thoroughly irritates me.
Boohoo for you. You have the option of legally oppressing people through mroe restrictive laws about who gets what, as they have actually done in the case under discussion. So tell me, do you consider it a good thing, this law that says no one is allowed to feed the homeless?

Quote:Nobody is entitled to anything. Human life is worth utterly nothing on an innate level. There seems to be some sort of illusory safety cushion in the Western World that says: "Oh, it's alright, you're worth something because you're a human being". Whereas in other parts of the world, you have people dying for absolutely no reason.
So the humanist viewpoint of people having worth is... worse than the callous disregard for human life found elsewhere?

Quote:And yes, the world we live in is the ideal of the two. But wouldn't it more ideal if we didn't tolerate freeloaders and the chronically lazy who live in a bubble of entitlement to good living conditions just because they happen to exist?

No sodding way.
You seem to think just because you exist and work *entitles* you to tell other people how to live their lives. No sodding way.

Well, hey, if everyone did their own thing with no direction from some authority, be it left wing, right wing, center, etc. we'd be living in anarchy. Someone is always "entitled" to tell other people how to live their lives. You're delusional if you think anyone is entitled to complete and utter freedom from the chains of society and civilisation.

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20-03-2015, 04:27 PM
RE: wow Florida wow
(18-03-2015 04:29 PM)Αθεία Αμβρόσιος Wrote:  But wouldn't it more ideal if we didn't tolerate freeloaders and the chronically lazy who live in a bubble of entitlement to good living conditions just because they happen to exist?

Why? And more importantly why does it even bother you? You jelly or something?

#sigh
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20-03-2015, 05:48 PM
RE: wow Florida wow
(20-03-2015 04:27 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(18-03-2015 04:29 PM)Αθεία Αμβρόσιος Wrote:  But wouldn't it more ideal if we didn't tolerate freeloaders and the chronically lazy who live in a bubble of entitlement to good living conditions just because they happen to exist?

Why? And more importantly why does it even bother you? You jelly or something?

Jealous of those who can get away with not working while living off the backs of people who do? Are you actually asking me why it bothers me in all seriousness, or is this some devil's advocate nonsense?

Why doesn't it bother you? Are you one of the bottom feeding cretins to whom I refer? Good living conditions are something to aspire for. Nobody has any innate right to them. If we all did, we all would. Working for that luxury is logical. Giving it to some and not to others, is not, and is utterly arbitrary. Those are the signs of a broken system.

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