young boys and education
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22-06-2016, 07:53 AM
RE: young boys and education
(21-06-2016 04:13 PM)epronovost Wrote:  To answer your last question, does anyone care? Boys drop out numbers are the second most discussed and most studied issue by schools and teacher. The most debated and studied issue is ironically also impacting boys more strongly than girls: the integration of students with disabilities, behavioral and/or learning troubles and handicap in regular classrooms. To aleviate those issue the following practice have been put foward, some with great success: school sports team programs, sports (or music, theatre) centered programs (both great success), some regions or schoolboards have attempted positive discrimination to stimulate the hiring of men school teachers (not a big success much like most other attempt at positive discrimination), the creation of a brand new school curriculum in most Western Country in the early 2000's based on interractive teaching methods (success has varied depending on where and how the new program was applied), programs against discrimination and bullying (pretty inefficient due to lack of interventions and commitment), new programs for the formation of new teachers with a stronger emphasis on child development (again efficiency can vary widely). All in all, boys keep having lower grades on average and higher drop out rates than girls. On the other side, boys situation at school has improved vastly over the last 25 years. Drop out rates have been lowered by half in the last 20 years while average has slightly improved over the same period (though, since the programs and evaluation have changed comparison can be difficult). In resume, while the situation is concerning, this issue is a top concern for education specialists be they didactician or teacher. Cultural changes toward education, more ressources allocated toward students in difficulty and better training programs for teachers will be necessary to completly close the gap. The greatest threat to boys success in class (or any children success in school for that matter) are austerity programs that cut funds to schools. The first who are impacted by those cuts are students in difficulties and most of them are boys.

well the problem with trying to get more male elementary school teachers it that it doesn't appeal to men. Men like things that are competitive, so to get more male elementary school teachers, you would have to make it very masculine, and hope that women become attracted to men who are elementary school teachers(because lets be real, most men do things to attract women).

I don't know how things are in Canada, but here in the U.S the issue is non existent. I don't think many people here know about it. But I am glad it is noticed some where. Smile

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22-06-2016, 11:08 AM
RE: young boys and education
Sir William Golding may have been an "oldie", but he managed to condense a life time of experience with women into one brilliant summary statement.



"I think women are foolish to pretend they are equal to men, they are far superior and always have been. Whatever you give a woman, she will make greater. If you give her sperm, she'll give you a baby. If you give her a house, she'll give you a home. If you give her groceries, she'll give you a meal. If you give her a smile, she'll give you her heart. She multiplies and enlarges what is given to her. So, if you give her any crap, be prepared to receive a ton of shit!”
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22-06-2016, 01:05 PM
RE: young boys and education
(21-06-2016 08:17 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(21-06-2016 06:20 AM)CleverUsername Wrote:  Online schooling might help.

I mean, brick and mortar schools should undoubtedly take more steps to improve the problem, but just at the moment, if I had a son who was doing badly in school because it was too "calm and quiet", I'd considering online schooling. All of your schooling can be condensed into a tablet that you can run around with, no one cares how loud you are, and you get the ability to ditch lessons midway through if you're really, really out of it (provided the school has self paced lessons instead of virtual classroom ones).

I don't quite remember if my school suggested hands on stuff to go along with the lessons (if they did I ignored them), but a parent willing to do some Google searches could make up for that.

Online schooling sounds interesting. And I do agree that parents should get involved with the education of children, whether male or female.

If you are advocating 'home schooling' it is such a sick concept. I have known a dozen home schooled kids. One at 17 had 'graduated' and his great grandmother (my mother) gave him a $500.00 gift. I took him to a bank to cash it and he had no concept of how to sign his name!Finally the cashier talked to a manager and it was decided that if he made an X it would be accepted with my signature and ID> He told me a year later that he had had to learn how to sign his name to get e driver's license. Another 19 year old home schooled was still trying to pass pre algebta (a 7th grade subject?) so he could get his GED. Depriving your kids of an education should be in the same category as refusing to have them vaccinated.
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22-06-2016, 01:35 PM
RE: young boys and education
(22-06-2016 07:53 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(21-06-2016 04:13 PM)epronovost Wrote:  To answer your last question, does anyone care? Boys drop out numbers are the second most discussed and most studied issue by schools and teacher. The most debated and studied issue is ironically also impacting boys more strongly than girls: the integration of students with disabilities, behavioral and/or learning troubles and handicap in regular classrooms. To aleviate those issue the following practice have been put foward, some with great success: school sports team programs, sports (or music, theatre) centered programs (both great success), some regions or schoolboards have attempted positive discrimination to stimulate the hiring of men school teachers (not a big success much like most other attempt at positive discrimination), the creation of a brand new school curriculum in most Western Country in the early 2000's based on interractive teaching methods (success has varied depending on where and how the new program was applied), programs against discrimination and bullying (pretty inefficient due to lack of interventions and commitment), new programs for the formation of new teachers with a stronger emphasis on child development (again efficiency can vary widely). All in all, boys keep having lower grades on average and higher drop out rates than girls. On the other side, boys situation at school has improved vastly over the last 25 years. Drop out rates have been lowered by half in the last 20 years while average has slightly improved over the same period (though, since the programs and evaluation have changed comparison can be difficult). In resume, while the situation is concerning, this issue is a top concern for education specialists be they didactician or teacher. Cultural changes toward education, more ressources allocated toward students in difficulty and better training programs for teachers will be necessary to completly close the gap. The greatest threat to boys success in class (or any children success in school for that matter) are austerity programs that cut funds to schools. The first who are impacted by those cuts are students in difficulties and most of them are boys.

well the problem with trying to get more male elementary school teachers it that it doesn't appeal to men. Men like things that are competitive, so to get more male elementary school teachers, you would have to make it very masculine, and hope that women become attracted to men who are elementary school teachers(because lets be real, most men do things to attract women).

I don't know how things are in Canada, but here in the U.S the issue is non existent. I don't think many people here know about it. But I am glad it is noticed some where. Smile

When I type in my google bar «drop out rate boys usa», I found dozens of articles in major newspapers and broadcasting services on the subject and several statistical analysis. There is even a wikipedia page dedicated to this issues. With so much litterature, studies and actions taken to aleviate this problem, saying that this issue is under the radar of teachers and didactician in the US or that it's widely considered a non issue is ridiculous and even slightly offensive in my opinion. Maybe you are searching information at the wrong place or trying to discuss it with the wrong crowd if you think its a none issue?

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22-06-2016, 02:00 PM
RE: young boys and education
(22-06-2016 01:05 PM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  
(21-06-2016 08:17 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Online schooling sounds interesting. And I do agree that parents should get involved with the education of children, whether male or female.

If you are advocating 'home schooling' it is such a sick concept. I have known a dozen home schooled kids. One at 17 had 'graduated' and his great grandmother (my mother) gave him a $500.00 gift. I took him to a bank to cash it and he had no concept of how to sign his name!Finally the cashier talked to a manager and it was decided that if he made an X it would be accepted with my signature and ID> He told me a year later that he had had to learn how to sign his name to get e driver's license. Another 19 year old home schooled was still trying to pass pre algebta (a 7th grade subject?) so he could get his GED. Depriving your kids of an education should be in the same category as refusing to have them vaccinated.
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22-06-2016, 03:00 PM (This post was last modified: 22-06-2016 03:04 PM by Leerob.)
RE: young boys and education
I don't think it is exactly a boy problem to be honest. There are very quiet boys and very active girls too. I think that teachers have to adjust to their students and the mood of the day. If the children are a bit more unsettled, they need to adjust and then simply take advantage of days where they are more focussed.
The whole idea of how to teach and how to learn needs to change. When I was a child, I would have needed more hand on and a faster pace but both was not possible when I was a kid. That is why, whenever possible, kids need to have activities that fit their personality after school. Obviously a very active child needs more quality activity > that hands on that was mentioned in op.

When I was working in daycare, I had a few activities that I would do to kinda level the moods of the kids so they are kinda even throughout the group. And if some kids still stood out extreme in either direction (a bit too quiet or a bit too active), I would pick those for an extra activity to bring them up or down a little. But I did include at least 1 hour in the morning and 1 hour in the afternoon (and if possible more) where we would go outside in the yard or the garden or playground, so they could run and be loud etc. Because the active ones bottle up and then they can go wild a bit and the quiet ones can unwind the stress as well by just sitting in the sandbox or on the swings and chill without basically sitting on top of each other.

I wonder if there are schools that operate a bit like day care when it comes to this. Like more quality outside times, teachers who have a feel on what needs to be done to get the whole class on a relatively even energy level. In my schools (when I was a kid) no teacher ever was good at that. Class was always crazy, from primary to college... (how the fuck did I actually graduate that well?! I have no idea!)

EDIT - gotta add something: Oh yes, I want to agree btw that more male role models as teachers or other pedagogic personell would be very useful. I find though, that the numbers of men in these positions are increasing. But that is just an observation and might be wrong, I have no numbers on it.

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22-06-2016, 04:39 PM
RE: young boys and education
(22-06-2016 01:35 PM)epronovost Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 07:53 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  well the problem with trying to get more male elementary school teachers it that it doesn't appeal to men. Men like things that are competitive, so to get more male elementary school teachers, you would have to make it very masculine, and hope that women become attracted to men who are elementary school teachers(because lets be real, most men do things to attract women).

I don't know how things are in Canada, but here in the U.S the issue is non existent. I don't think many people here know about it. But I am glad it is noticed some where. Smile

When I type in my google bar «drop out rate boys usa», I found dozens of articles in major newspapers and broadcasting services on the subject and several statistical analysis. There is even a wikipedia page dedicated to this issues. With so much litterature, studies and actions taken to aleviate this problem, saying that this issue is under the radar of teachers and didactician in the US or that it's widely considered a non issue is ridiculous and even slightly offensive in my opinion. Maybe you are searching information at the wrong place or trying to discuss it with the wrong crowd if you think its a none issue?

Well sure it is a issue to some, but nobody considers it a real thing. You don't really hear it on the news, you don't see large campaigns to stop it. Hell most people don't even care about it.

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22-06-2016, 05:49 PM (This post was last modified: 22-06-2016 07:51 PM by epronovost.)
RE: young boys and education
(22-06-2016 04:39 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 01:35 PM)epronovost Wrote:  When I type in my google bar «drop out rate boys usa», I found dozens of articles in major newspapers and broadcasting services on the subject and several statistical analysis. There is even a wikipedia page dedicated to this issues. With so much litterature, studies and actions taken to aleviate this problem, saying that this issue is under the radar of teachers and didactician in the US or that it's widely considered a non issue is ridiculous and even slightly offensive in my opinion. Maybe you are searching information at the wrong place or trying to discuss it with the wrong crowd if you think its a none issue?

Well sure it is a issue to some, but nobody considers it a real thing. You don't really hear it on the news, you don't see large campaigns to stop it. Hell most people don't even care about it.

Most people don't give a shit about anything you know. Education, especially education trend, rarely make the news. As a teacher I found myself struggling to get some parent support for the academical success of their own child. Imagine how hard it is to get a persons support and investment for someone else child. The only time you ever hear about schools in the news lately is for school shootings. Depending on where you live I might be able to direct you toward online petitions or organism to prevent defunding of extra curricular school programs and school specialists positions.

PS: there is one for Michelle Obama online right now to tackle the issue on national level in the US and another one on the international level.

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